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Layoffs = No Future Patches?

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  • #46
    Frankly, Grumbold, I sweep NWN aside because the XP formula is too screwed up to make a playable game. I know a few hardcore DnD modders managed to put the real XP system into the game, but it seemed more trouble than it was worth. DnD, for me, is about character progression and advancement as much as about interacting with friends or NPC's, and NWN completely botches the awarding of XP.

    I do find it interesting that you think NWN did a good job implementing the 3E rules. I've read most of the 3E DnD and FR products that have been released and, frankly, Bioware's product really doesn't bear that much more of a resemblance to 3E than Dungeon Siege does. Superficially, it uses the same terms and stats as 3E, but it doesn't come close to properly applying those stats and rules in the way 3E intended.

    I am though willing to concede that I am a huge of fan of BG2 and, to a lesser extent, IWD. Multiplayer is a fun but fleeting diversion compared to single player and Bioware's abandonment of the single player audience and, really, their betrayal of them based on the marketing of NWN deeply effects my perception of the game.

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    • #47
      DnD, for me, is about character progression and advancement as much as about interacting with friends or NPC's
      I agree. One of the reasons I love RPG games so much is for that. I love paper DnD but have trouble getting everyone assembled every time we play. Plus, I can fight forty battles an hour on PC instead of one battle in an hour and a half on paper.

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      • #48
        Patches are always needed.

        At least to make post release play-balance of races, ships, abilities.
        To ensure that nothing is broken or overpowered
        (like it's done with games such as Starcraft)

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        • #49
          I would be shocked if MOO3 didn't get patched at some point. I've never been involved in a project that did not have a projected patch-like idea in mind. Most projects these days actually have a resolution of 'patch', and go in planning on releasing patch X on this day.

          That being said, I'll also be surprised if there are many balance-type changes in the game. There aren't any overreachingly huge deals in the tech tree or in the race picks that makes the game broken, like they did in Moo2. It is a much more strategic game, in that sense.

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          • #50
            Of coure, but nobody is prefect.

            Something can't be noticed easily with just no more then 30-50 playtesters.

            But, when it goes in public with more then 10,000s of players playing it, there is much better chance to find exploit, overpowered ability or AI weakness.

            Of course it should nevr be nothign drastic.

            P.S.
            Remember unpatched MOO3 Plasma Cannons (they very very powerful)?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jscott991
              Frankly, Grumbold, I sweep NWN aside because the XP formula is too screwed up to make a playable game.
              Please explain what you mean by this. You kill a monster, you get Xp. Unless you use the level 1 pet exploit you get a consistent amount of Xp. The amount you get is set at a level that ensures good progression in a computer game where you can kill 5 monsters in the time it would take a PnP team to get their dice out. If they followed the official WoTC 3e guide then after 400 fights of an appropriate challenge rating your character would be lvl 20 and it would be time to roll up another one. The only mods I saw in the making were ones determined to make it harder to get Xp, not easier.

              All modifications to the basic 3e ruleset were as sanctioned by WoTC. Trying to get a PnP game into a CRPG some items are going to have to bend.
              Last edited by Grumbold; February 7, 2003, 20:26.
              To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
              H.Poincaré

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              • #52
                I feel they'll do a patch as well. I just hope they don't break more things than they fix.

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                • #53
                  It seems to me the commercial game patches are getting worse and worse since the publishers subject them to massive QA. They now take forever to reach the public (which is the only place where bugs are *really* found), so the developers hardly get more than one patch out before they abandon the project.

                  That's one of the many reasons why I hope the traditional publishers will die quickly and be replaced by pure broadband network distribution a la Steam. Then any game can get an online bug control system and time-effective patching (and by eliminating the expendable middlemen with a high salary, we get all that at a much cheaper price too )

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                  • #54
                    Re: Layoffs = No Future Patches?

                    Originally posted by gunnergoz
                    With the apparent imminent layoffs of the development team, can we assume that there will be no future patches and upgrades to the game?

                    I'll be highly distressed about this if it is the case. I'd been counting upon some "massaging" of the basic game by the development team, perhaps a patch or two with a few tweaks and upgrades...maybe even an add-on disk like the one to Alpha Centauri, that added so much to that game.

                    Cripes, I hate bean-counters and land-sharks (lawyers).
                    It's too bad they don't start working on MOO4. I've been laid off twice and I know it's no fun.

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                    • #55
                      The early computer game didnot really have that many bugs in then compare to today games. The first computer game I play was Wizardry 1 which only needed 128 k of memony and IBM DOS.

                      I like BG 1 and 2 and IWD 1 and 2. I also play p&p roleplaying games than as DM I do make change in the rules. I allow all my player to have than XP pool to help then
                      pay for makeing magic idems without loseing levels.
                      By the year 2100 AD over half of the world population will be follower of Islam.

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                      • #56
                        Yesteryear's games were also not nearly as complex.

                        Consider, games used to come out on floppy disks maybe totaling 5 megs. Now they come in multiple CDs totalling over a gig at times.

                        As complexity goes up, bugs are bound to go up as well.

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                        • #57
                          Complexity does not equal size.

                          You get tons of videos, CGIs and voice acting of questionable quality today, but that doesn't make the games more complex. In fact it makes them less complex, because time and money that flows into eye- and earcandy is not available for developing relevant content.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by darcy
                            Complexity does not equal size.

                            You get tons of videos, CGIs and voice acting of questionable quality today, but that doesn't make the games more complex. In fact it makes them less complex, because time and money that flows into eye- and earcandy is not available for developing relevant content.
                            Exactly.
                            Objects in mirror are insignificant.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by darcy
                              Complexity does not equal size.

                              You get tons of videos, CGIs and voice acting of questionable quality today, but that doesn't make the games more complex. In fact it makes them less complex, because time and money that flows into eye- and earcandy is not available for developing relevant content.
                              Ask yourself this.

                              Let us take 2 games, say Dune 2 and C&C Generals, both comming from the same lineage of the now defunct Westwood studios.

                              Compare the AI in Dune 2 and then in the most recent C&C Generals. Which is more complex?

                              Compare the physics engine of Dune 2 and compare it to Generals.

                              Compare the number and complexity of calls made to graphical drivers in Dune 2 and Generals.

                              Actually compare any 2 games. Simcity and SC4000.

                              Warcraft and Warcraft 3.

                              Hell even Moo and Moo3.

                              You really have no idea what your talking about when say complexity of the code has gone down from yesteryear.

                              Let me guess, you haven't even coded a single line in your life have you....

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                              • #60
                                Well said Corentor.

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