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**MarkG** · January 24, 2003, 02:51

Don't explain the screenshots. They explain themselves.

sorry, wrong. 50% of the questions we get is of the "what's that little thing on the part of the screen?" type

Don't worry about the mechanics. We don't care about that.

perhaps you dont. not everyone is like you though....

For some reason that I personally really can't grasp, these previews actively make me mad.

well, this forum is not meant to provide the proper aid to help you find out why you get mad by reading a preview of a game. still, just a small note, i think you ought to try other ways of expression(join the war protests for example, it could allow you to blow off lots of that moodelays steam

)

**Jack Frost** · January 24, 2003, 03:20

yeah, honestly I've gone way overboard. The last week I've been very moody due to quitting smoking (I was a 2+packadayer) so please take my comments with a grain of salt.

**darcy** · January 24, 2003, 03:26

then the smart thing to do would be to gratefull towards whoever gave them even a small amount of new info instead of nitpicking

The sort of constructive criticism offered here is far beyond nitpicking. The IG boarders have even started rewriting the preview to make it more bearable!

But as stated before, I realize that suggestions on how to write better are wasted breath when someone is not open for them and writes with a "Geez, I write for fun and for free. Don't read it if you don't like it!" attitude.

One possible explanation could be that the writer is under a pretty tight NDA which *forces* him to fill page after page without revealing anything. Of course that's no excuse, as agreeing to such a thing (or even signing it) should be a big no-no; it turns independent journalists into PR agents of the publisher/developer. These subservient relations to people who are supposed to be the target of criticism are the main reason why 90% of the "professional" reviews in game magazines and websites are overhyped crap. Look at their ads and you know who paid the reviewer.

**Darkrenown** · January 24, 2003, 03:31

Originally posted by MarkG

Ahh, but they are also desperate for content. . .

then the smart thing to do would be to gratefull towards whoever gave them even a small amount of new info instead of nitpicking

It's hardly nitpicking to ask that a writer writes in a way that does not make his readers eyes bleed.

If I may ask, do you think the preview is well written and easy to understand? Be honest now.

**Jamski** · January 24, 2003, 03:47

Originally posted by Darkrenown
If I may ask, do you think the preview is well written and easy to understand? Be honest now.

Being completely honest, I have no problem with understanding Dan's writing, no problem with his style and generally no problem with the whole caboodle. It should also be noted that all the complaints on this forum are psudo-trollers from the IGMoO fora, where this kind of bitter whinging is common currency. Hey guys, instead of complaining about "writing style" how about saying "thank-you" to Dan, who is, after all, typing and formatting 36 pages of HTML text for YOU to read. And he's doing it FOR FREE.

Where I come from people say,
"If you can't say something nice, then don't say anything."

So, thanks Dan, keep up the good work, and how about an "unforseen circumstance" bringing us the next installment on Tuesday?

-Jam

**darcy** · January 24, 2003, 03:55

.

**Jamski** · January 24, 2003, 04:08

Originally posted by darcy
.

See - better already

-Jam

**niteshade6** · January 24, 2003, 04:11

I love it when people like War claim that the people bashing the article are doing so because they are part of a different forum. It's like they think there are two political factions of readers who are divided by forum. As if it's not the same people who read both forums.

Sure they aren't bashing the article because it's bad, they are bashing it because of some imaginary political agenda. Yeah.....that's the ticket. Talk about delusional.

**kalbear** · January 24, 2003, 04:14

Well, while I read the IGMOO forums, I'm not a member there.

And this preview has flaws. It has some great bits, and the sound preview was awesome, but there's a lot to fault with it as well.

What I think every fan would like is not to bash these previews, but instead actually get more information in an intuitive, educational way. The content pertaining to the game itself is fine, but c'mon - 'reading right to left'?

**LDiCesare** · January 24, 2003, 04:16

OK I'm complaining too, but:
The article is very keen on saying what is seen on the screen, but where on earth is the screenshot? I expect screenshots to be near where they are referred to in the text. It is good to have a separate page with all screens, but having a main page talking about stuff I can't see and don't know where to find makes the preview impossible to understand for me (I don't mind the style).
Instead of "see related screenshot", why not put a URL behind that sentence or, even better, put the screenshot somewhere to the right in the same page?

**Jamski** · January 24, 2003, 04:36

Originally posted by niteshade6
I love it when people like War claim that the people bashing the article are doing so because they are part of a different forum. It's like they think there are two political factions of readers who are divided by forum. As if it's not the same people who read both forums.

I can see that its not the same people who post in each forum. It doesn't take a genius to spot all the settlers who have joined 'poly just to complain about Dan's preview(s) Like my old teacher said,
"I won't mention your names, you know who you are."

This is not a personal attack on anyone, just a request for a more considered response to Dan's article, which even I will admit is not perfect, but really its nothing so bad I have to join 'poly just to complain about it. I'm sure that a quick look around some other threads will give you a feel for the differences between the IG forum and Apolyton.

Thanks for your understanding

-Jam

**Arnelos** · January 24, 2003, 04:38

DanQ,

Nice preview

I can't wait for Part 5... the individual government types is the part of this game I've been waiting to hear about since LAST YEAR at this time

Like I think you mentioned in Part 1, governments and social systems is my area of academic research, so that's the area I'm most interested in from an intellectual point-of-view

**niteshade6** · January 24, 2003, 04:56

"I can see that its not the same people who post in each forum. It doesn't take a genius to spot all the settlers who have joined 'poly just to complain about Dan's preview(s) Like my old teacher said,
"I won't mention your names, you know who you are." "

Yes there are many people who previously just read this forum and never felt any need to comment on anything who have felt that this article is bad enough to break their silence and comment on. This only goes to further show how bad it is. The fact that you know which names are in which forums also goes to prove my point. You wouldn't know that unless you read both forums. Both Apolyton and Orion Sector have always been listed as the best places to check for news and information and I doubt there are many people on the IG list who do not go to at least one of them regularly, even if they do not regularly post in any forums.

"This is not a personal attack on anyone, just a request for a more considered response to Dan's article, which even I will admit is not perfect, but really its nothing so bad I have to join 'poly just to complain about it. "

I disagree. In the 18 or so years I have been playing computer games I have never read a worse review, nor have I ever before felt the need to criticize a review that I have read. In fact I usualy defend the reviews of other people. I would not be criticizing this now unless I really thought it was justified. I might encourage you to take a more considered and objective response myself, but I realize there is always going to be a certain amount of opinion in these things. Just like no matter how good something is, there will be people who hate it, it's also true that no matter how bad something is there will be people who like it. If the review works for you, that's fine, but realize that it does not work for the vast majority of those who read it. And that's not because they happen to usualy post on a different forum then the one you do.

"I'm sure that a quick look around some other threads will give you a feel for the differences between the IG forum and Apolyton. "

The main difference is that more people post to the IG forum, and it has alot more activity. As a result you get a much wider range of people, and much more difference of opinion. The fact that part 3 is one of the worst written things of all time, is the first thing I've seen them all agree on ever. Even part 2 had about 25% of the people defending it.

**Jamski** · January 24, 2003, 05:53

Originally posted by niteshade6
Even part 2 had about 25% of the people defending it.

One reason hardly anyone is defending this preview is that this thread has turned into a IG vs 'poly thing. This was not my intention at all, sorry. And yes I used to read the IGMoO fora, but this is not the place to discuss what went wrong there. Try this link if you want to talk about IG forums (I'm not mad, BTW

) http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=74738

Niteshade, sure you have your opinion, but how are you helping Dan by just saying its the worst preview you've ever read ? Have you ever read such a long, indepth preview in your 18 years of computer gaming? Or one with so many screenshots? (Already more than 50 screenshots, and only halfway through) Give the guy a chance, hey? He's doing a good job.

-Jam

**MarkG** · January 24, 2003, 06:03

The sort of constructive criticism offered here is far beyond nitpicking.

and then i read this

It's hardly nitpicking to ask that a writer writes in a way that does not make his readers eyes bleed.

But as stated before, I realize that suggestions on how to write better are wasted breath when someone is not open for them

after doing all this work to prepare this preview it's hard to sit down and dig for the constructive criticism out of the "forum flood" of a "literature mob"....

if you are realy interested in make thing better, it might be better to mail dan personally

with a "Geez, I write for fun and for free. Don't read it if you don't like it!" attitude.

this attitude is given to those who deserve it and it's the only thing they can understand

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