Recolonization

[Kc7mxo]

Kinda sounds like you only play to win. I always tried to give the AI a chance, though I tried not to leave myself open. But then I've also purposely kept myself weak just to see how the AIs treat eachother.

I've always been a big diplomacy freak I suppose. i still remember the first time an allied AI civ declared war on my enemy in civ2. I was so stunned and happy I gave the bugger a load of cash and tech. Of course, I was very soon dissillusioned as to their loyalty.

I'd like to see an AI that can value friendship and long term alliances. If I've been friends with my neighbor for a couple millineia, the odds of them up and invading me can't be THAT high.

[RolandtheMad]

Bah.. all it would take is one DARLOK (die die die) spy to end a several hundred year alliance.. or just deciding they need more 'living space'.. or them founding a colony in my space.. or something.. lol

[Trachmyr]

I found the thread I referred to earlier... unfortunately, I must inform you that it was not a BETA who stated it, as it was refering to an earlier data dump about "Government DEA's". So, take that info with a grain of salt.

Hopefully, the info is still correct.

[RolandtheMad]

Hummm.. well every once in a blue moon Rantz or Xentax is seen posting here. Maybe they`ll grace us with an answer.. or maybe we`ll just have to wait and see. I`d like the system claim thing to be in but I wouldn`t be too upset if it weren`t.. just means that I won`t be having many long term allies.

[Kc7mxo]

Bah.. all it would take is one DARLOK (die die die) spy to end a several hundred year alliance.. or just deciding they need more 'living space'.. or them founding a colony in my space.. or something.. lol

Definetly true. I think that the computer should be smart enough that it won't try and spy on its allies (or at least not get caught). With REAL allies, I'd be sharing or exchanging most of my tech anyway. I used to give away quite a lot of tech in moo2 to my allies though.

[Harry Seldon]

I'd like to trust my allies but I wouldn't bet the bank on it. It would be prudent to know if they were planning on going to war with one of our neighbors, in case said neighbor was an integral part of my devious scheme to control the universe and I didn't want it attacked at that moment. Hopefully diplomacy will be advanced enough that we could defuse a situation like that.

[RolandtheMad]

This is *EXACTLY* why I don`t want aliens in my borders. In Avatar's new AAR he mentions he has a colony in Ielelilnaq's home system. I find it hard to believe there wasn`t a government DEA in some empire's home system. I guess system claiming is out and recolonization is in.

It is possible that he may have purchased the system but this makes me wary.

The New AAR

"But my trials were not yet over. Once more, from a great distance, the remnants of the Tachidi empire banded together and declared me a threat to be eliminated. I was jaded and numbed by the constant warfare that my people faced in this "new galactic order", and I shook my head as I dispatched my watchdog forces through a wormhole into the last bastion of Tachidi space.

And then, one single moment later, Ielelilinaq rebelled against my authority. My own lost brother condemned my policies and mustered his people to wage war on me. With so many systems under our joint control, and a sizeable portion of my fleet sent out into Tachidi space, and Maklosomeat sending his ships into Laan, I sensed great difficulties ahead. I faced the prospect of a three-front war, one of which was completely within my own borders. My now well-oiled war machine rumbled to life, and my troops received their orders: Defend the empire.

At Kali, Ielelilinaq's system defense forces crushed my planetary defenses and rained fire down upon my people. My task forces swept in from Noctua to engage the enemy, but not before one of my colonies was pulverized. In his own home system, though, my single colony had been preparing for this scenario for many cycles, and held out against his onslaught of local defense forces using an impressive spread of orbital defense platforms. The system was left devoid of ships and home only to a quintet of well-defended planets. I would return there when I was ready. "

[kalbear]

You didn't like that aspect of it? Personally, I thought that was awesome. These two races co-existed forever, each building up knowing that this would eventually come to pass.

It's an option, isn't it? I don't think that the AI goes out of it's way to do this sort of thing, but given space involved and relative distance, it's the sort of thing I did all the time. It's a viable, if somewhat dangerous, strategy for exactly this reason - almost instantaneous death and destruction for the first person that attacks.

[RolandtheMad]

Yes but you see how little the AI valued the alliance they had and struck when there was weakness. No, I don`t like the idea of having open borders so the AI can backstab me when I start to think it is a finally trustworthy AI.

And no it isn`t an option as far as I can tell.

[kalbear]

It didn't sound like they had a full-fledged alliance. It sounds like they had something of a good deal going, and were working together...

And then the AI did the unthinkable - when the Tachidi had attacked from one direction, and the ally was in a state of weakness, and they were in a state of strength, they did a pearl harbor.

Untrustworthy? Yep.

Despicable? Yep.

Good strategy move and good indication of AI? Abso-friggin-lutely. Plus, if you kinda read between the lines, you get the impression that the NO sorta-kinda bribed his allies to go against him.

Anyway, this is the sort of thing that I want in a strategy game. I want AI opponents that are reasonably trustworthy (like the Psilon Tionek in the game, again sharing systems, sharing planets, and in some cases sharing FLEET STRENGTH!) or those that can smell weakness and go for the win. That seems like a challenge to me.

I'm still astounded by the Psilon. Tionek is this erstwhile ally throughout the AAR - all 5 parts of it. Having a Psilon destroyer as the lone ship protecting a system vs. the Ithkul, when it's not even their system - that's impressive to me. Them backing him up in the senate whenever, declaring war vs. his allies...that speaks volumes about the behavior of the AI.

In other words, the AI can do either. What it does? Well, depends on the situation, the race in question, and the diplomacy between 'em.

As long as the AI isn't schizophrenic and isn't declaring war on me because they think they can - for some bizarre reason - beat me down - well, I'm for it. I'd always marvel at the AI taking over one provincial planet when I have 40 systems to their 3. Why on earth...you know guys, I'm going to annihilate all of you aside from the one person I put on a toxic tiny and make you do tricks, right?

In terms of being an 'option' - it's the sort of thing that you can deal with diplomatically or not at all. You can tell them to get out of your system, or buy/demand their planet, or simply blow up their ships. It's up to you. In that game, CA chose to let both races expand because he didn't want to fight a war with an ideologically compatible race when he had so many problems with people like the Ithkul and Silicoids.

[RolandtheMad]

Yeah that is real nice and all about having a cunning AI. I`m even for that really lol.

That isn`t really the point though. The point is that I don`t like the idea of having transparent borders. I don`t care about sharing, alliances, fleets.. my space is *my space*. That is my game strategy. Xenophoba.

I`m not really so worried about schizophrenic AI either. The AARs seem to indicate they are somewhat trustworthy. Tionek did follow him all the way until the end like you say. I really just like having secure borders.

[kalbear]

Then it's up to you to enforce it. You need to get mad and tell them to take a hike. Or let them through and assume that they'll let you do the same (which, in this example, they did). If it wasn't mutual - if it was the AI putting little colonies in my territory - something that drove me insane in Civ2, BTW, and was a wonderous change in SMAC - then that'd be one thing.

But they both did it.

It was a choice.

Personally, I'd much rather have that option than either have no control, ala Civ 2 - your only recourse was war - or SMAC, where your ally couldn't put a base in your borders unless you specifically founded the thing and gave it to 'em. It doesn't sound like the AI does it all that often - notice that the Psilons don't do it at all in the same game, despite being so close to both Nommo races - and it has to be decided upon.

[RolandtheMad]

It isn`t so much of a choice if the computer AI just starts sending in colony ships to all your gas planets or whatever as soon as you have a Non Agression pact with them. It wouldn`t be much fun if I was having to constantly enforce my borders from intrusion either. It`d just be easier to not have allies and every AI colony would be my potential colony anyway (like every other game, ugh).

I`m not so sure it was a choice. It may have been, I really don`t know, but I don`t think it was. Avatar did say that he had prepared that world in their home system. He didn`t trust them totally obviously. If he didn`t trust them why would he let them colonize in his space?

Ugh its late and I can`t think...

Anyway, meshing empires is bad. Some people are comfortable with no secure borders. I am not those people. I would get really ticked off if every time there was a war I had to go fight in every star of mine for enemy planets and have all my planets instantly assaulted by enemy system ships like some kind of civil war. Just not my cup of tea.

Anyway like I said its late and I`m not articulating myself well. Perhaps I`ll pick this up again tommorow.