making moo2 more difficult

[bazi643]

i think im good at moo2. So I have the problem that even if i play moo2 in impossible mode i win every time.
Does anyone how i can make more difficult???
i like the game very much, but its boring if you win every time.
Maybe there´s a way to make AI more effective???

[xoham]

everytime?

Maybe you could tell us your favorite custom race and basic tactics. I think most will find it hard to believe you win everytime. Especially since random events will sometimes ruin you.

But I would love to try out some of your setups.

[bazi643]

everytime!!!! its boring!

my race mostly are:
unification
creative
subterran
-10 spy
-10 ground attack
-10 ship attack and defense
-and then something like poor or large homeworld not that important

My strategie is:
first getting allies(reaserch and trade treatys), build small empire with much population, and then kill a few other races, capture their colonies, conquer Orion and then defeat antares( with a single doomstar)!
with this strategie i get a score of ca. 1900 at the game summary. is that very much?

[vmxa1]

Not to be rude or anything, but when I hear that someone wins everytime at impossible, I have to wonder if they are using some under handed methods. Maybe you are the one exception, but they are no real secrets to the game and it is not hard to run into bad layouts. I put it with the claims of winning by turn 110, I keep seeing.
Race -6 Repulsive -2 Ship Attack -2 Ground Combat

Huge universe (173 colonies)
PreWarp tech Organic Rich Antaran On
340% (24 picks left)
Start 1 system, one planet

Time 499 turns 781 pts
5385 pop 5385 pts (? not housed)
6 players elim 300 pts
tech 262 pts
154 captured 154 pts
antarian 250 pts
100 orion 100 pts
score 7155*340 24327 pts
With appx 1000 points just for the std stuff and toss in pop+capture+time 1900 is not much. The map size can be ignored.

[bazi643]

bad layouts?

in some way you are right.
Sure i can chose race pics which makes my race really discusting. and then the game is more difficult.
But thats not more fun. Why should i try to make me a weak race, and then maybe play the weak race like an idiot.
I want to give my best and have opponents who beat me instead of this. Thats what i call challenging!

[xoham]

Assuming you pick the race you like and is "good", are you typically playing with:

Antaran attacks?
Huge universe?
Max total enemies?

The reason I ask is that it makes for a very different game if those things are not true. For instance, I believe it was Moomin that posted a very short victory on impossible by choosing the smallest universe, then immediately forming positive relationships with neighbors, being subterranian so he has the most pop, then getting voted in. All in some crazy short amount of time.

I think most people play Impossible, Huge, Max enemies, Antaran attacks, with some custom race that is probably using Psilon based so you don't have to face massive superior tech.

And there are certainly bad layouts. For instance, having your homeworld targeted by a giant amoeba before you've built any ships.

[bazi643]

i do also choose huge universe, random events, attack antarans and so on. I think this is more fun.
And with amoeba youre right, this is a possibilty to loose, but this normally never happen me.

But to choose a civilzation which is discusting makes no sense i my point of view.

[vmxa1]

Nice to be called an idiot by someone who does not even know me. Anyway, the point of the race was not to have fun, but to rack up a good score. To get a max score you need to choose as few positive traits as you can stand. That will of course make the game harder. I am not an expert that never loses, nor do I know everything (althought I can give away a couple dozen IQ points and still get into mensa). I have however played nearly every type of game and race offered in Moo2. I still can not claim to never lose at impossible and I am dubious of those that do. I have posted complete details of games at impossible to prove it can be played without any slight of hand and won. I have challenged all that claim they can win in some sub 150 turns and have yet to see it documented. Anyway I am not here to be antagonistc toward you. I am hear to learn, if anyone has something to consider or a better method, I am all set to be taught.

[xoham]

gauntlet thrown down

Ok. So here's a saved game. Very early (I think first turn even). This is using bazi643's custom race on impossible etc etc.

My challenge is for bazi, yes you, to win with it. No cheats.

I'll keep my copy to compare with your winning map later.

I would also be interested in intermediate saves, for those of us who DON'T win every time on impossible, to learn from. This would also add a lot of credence to your claim and likely prove that there were no cheats. This might be tedious but, it would really open this discussion to what you really wanted to talk about. Once I (and I assume others) are satisfied that nearly every imp game can be won, which I currently do not believe, we can talk about what should be done to make this game harder. That could be an interesting discussion.

Note that I had to change the extension to .SAV from .GAM so that it could be uploaded. You will need to undo this. Let me know if there are any technical problems.

-cheers

[bazi643]

vmxa 1:
At first i didnt call you an idiot, but the type playing the game with a ****ty race pics, because i want to do my best( even in creating a race) but having a challenge eventhough.
And second: i didnt say i win the in less or more than 150 rounds (ussually i takes 300 rounds for me).
But anyway thanks for answering, because im also here to hear other meanings.

Xoham: sorry for my english, but what means tedious?
If i understood you right, you made a save game (with my pics, etc.) which i should play, win and give you then some intermediate saves, so that you can see what i was doing. Right? It will be a pleasure for me. How many saves do you want and at which times? I think i can give them to you this evening or tommorow(because i eventhough have a normal live next to my moo2 addictive )

Tata

[xoham]

To those that learned English as a second language, I highly recommend www.dictionary.com . I use this myself to expand my vocabulary. It is fairly good at guessing even when you do not have the correct spelling.
---
te·di·ous Pronunciation Key (td-s)
adj.
Tiresome by reason of length, slowness, or dullness; boring. See Synonyms at boring.
Obsolete. Moving or progressing very slowly.
----

How about 4 total saves. One where you are about to attack the first enemy colony. A second where you get phasors. Third where you attack Orion. And fourth before the attack on Antares. We won't worry about the turn count. Good luck!

[vmxa1]

bazi643 I was just teasing you on the name part, forget it. I know you did not say you won in 150 turns, it was just a comparison. I hope I left room and was clear that I am not saying you can not do anything you have claimed. You could in fact be doing just what you said, I only meant that I am skeptical. Maybe it is because my experiences are at fault and my tactics are inferior. I allow for that possiblity. The race I posted is not one I play normally, it was only to respond to the score you mentioned. So people could relate 1900 to what is a high score. Don't misunderstand, anyone can match that score, I am not trying to say I did something special, just what can be done. Happy face here.

[xoham]

Oh and I forgot to mention! I assume you are playing with version 1.31 which has creative as 8 picks instead of the old 6. This would make a very big difference in my opinion.

[bazi643]

xoham: thanks for the link its added to my favourites (already used to it find out what does teasing mean).
I´ve take a look at the savegame and found out that it has a ****ty start, because the homeworld system is a wreck. But think i will handle it easily anyway.You will get the saves. I dont already know if i will go out tonight, if yes you get them tomorrow, if not you find them later this night.
And one word about the version: I dont know i have patched my moo2, but this dont matter because you choose the race pics and that means that creative had cost 8 pics.

vmxa 1: youre skeptical? you dont believe that i win everytime at immpossible when i choose a race which is not so bad? then im waiting for your comment to my next questions?

xoham and vmxa: after reading and writing a little bit through the forum i have seen that you both are no newbies at moo2 and that your know not so few about strategies and how to use techs in a good way.
My question is: How can you not win everytime at immpossible? where is the problem? ( exept with discusting race pics, when you take all disadvantages and no advantages)

[xoham]

My problems are:

Having a former ally, or non-agression pact signer, turn on me because of being framed for spying. It is hard to fight a multi-front war. It is especially difficult if your former ally is really close with a big fleet.

Also, being hemmed in with a ****ty starting system surrounded by empty or monster filled systems. Slow starts like that often get me killed.

In general, I think my biggest problem is that the computer gets such a huge industry bonus. If I can take one race over before getting into other wars, then this really helps me out and I will likely win. But if everyone is too far away for my fuel cells, then I can get wiped out by huge fleets, even if lower tech.

There are numerous problems if you are not creative. The biggest one for me is not having missle bases. This is because if a nearby foe sees an undefened planet, they will just decide to attack. If you buy a cheap missle base, then that doesn't seem to happen as often. This is an early game problem that happens a lot for me. They see a ripe system for the taking and go for it.

Perhaps my biggest flaw is not attacking early enough and trying to research too much. Maybe I should just research weaponry and skip everything else? (computer seems to do this a lot). Maybe I attack too late in the game?