Are detailed formulas still 'in'?

[vmxa1]

So true Cherry, except Moo2 was not as concise about what the value was for some thing. But civ3 is horrible about telling us the value of structures. I need to know how much I will get from a lib/universiy and under what conditions it will be useful. I mean putting a university in a pop 4 town is not productive, but they do not give you any means to determine that. In Moo2, they say a Holo will boost morale 20% or what ever it does, you can figure out if you have enough production to make it worth doing on that planet.

[Saber Cherry]

Yes, I had a lot of problems with the Civ 3 structures. Especially things like the "Coastal Fortress", where nobody ever figured out what it did, what it was supposed to do, or if it even did anything The first and only game I played, I built a bunch of them, just to be safe!

However, those problems did not bother me overly much since I gave up on the game as a waste, pretty soon. So it no longer has the power to frustrate me

Of course, if they had given me a formula to determine when the "Multiplayer patch" for the original Civ 3 would be out, I never would have bought it in the first place...

[vmxa1]

Coastal forts fire only when an incursion of two tiles takes place. The AI is aware of that an does not traverse two tile, so it does not draw fire. In short the coastal forts only values to as a prophylatic.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry
You're just talking about random variables in the formulae. If you knew the (possibly complex) formula or algorithm that determined a Tiger or T-34 winning a battle, that would not make the battle deterministic, since the algorithm would have random variables in it.

Generally speaking, I abhor games that force uninformed decisions such as: Build a bank to increase money, or build a lab to increase research. Which is better to build? How many? Is either one useful? Who knows.
-Cherry

Yes, I'm talking about a random element. Any formula that loses a modest random element becomes utterly deterministic and I detest them. Troop combat in MOO is pretty fair, because its not easy to get a bonus above +90 over your opponent, so at least a 10% chance of an unexpected result remains. If you've got +100 and aren't badly behind in other areas, you've won the game. Its research formula is deterministic in generation (a planet with x scientists and y improvements will produce z RP's) but the 'breakthrough' chance retains a significant random element. Perfect!

In other areas there are formulae with zero randomness. Farmers always produce exactly the same food. Planets generate precisely the same wealth. If you knew that a bank produced a significant boost in wealth but it varied between 15 and 25% per turn, you'd still build it. The dedicated player will still make plans based on the average or likely outcomes, but will have to stay flexible. I'm not advocating an information black hole because I hate uninformed decisions too.

[Saber Cherry]

That's good, I guess we both feel the same way then. But I like it when my opponents make uninformed decisions

[Grumbold]

You can gloat even more when they make informed but dumb decisions