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**ravagon** · July 2, 2002, 03:31

This will be very much subject to your custom race and game type methinks:-

1) Telepathic as I generally play with spying penalties and want to get rid of them before I meet the Darloks. (Of course my custom race is creative which removes the whole basis of the poll

)
Production can be increased by allocating more workers from researchers if necessary. Spying penalties can't be otherwise so easily reduced.

2) Pollution Processor - in most cases I don't go on a general offensive early and rarely have to defend at this stage - again subject to change if there is an immediate need. Doesn't quite account for an absence of AF's though as the +1 per worker hasn't been factored in.

3) Fighter garrisons - Fighters/missiles are targetted first by an enemy offensive - need to keep my ships out of the line of fire for as long as possible. Plus they do replicate if you ever have battles that last 10 turns (This has happened to me once or twice

).
I generally rely on mostly heavy based defenses and ships at critical choke-points so Armour barracks are unnecessary - AI tends to bomb my planets out of existence more often than invading them anyway.
Spaceports are a luxury. If you really need the cash set one of your planets to trade goods for a while. Early on the 50% isn't really going to amount to that much anyway unless you have a race that grows large pops quickly.

I do play on huge galaxies though so most of the expansion problems of other settings are alleviated in these early stages.

**moomin** · July 2, 2002, 05:22

1) Telepathic training. Can never have too high a spy bonus, right? Especially in mid-game.
2) Pollution Processor. Unless I'm tolerant, which I can't recall last time I were. Prod is way more important than missiles - nukes mostly do, especially MIRVd, till you get decent beam tech anyway.
3) Depends entirely on the situation: spaceport if I'm on the offensive - fleets cost money. Fighter garrisons if a large neigbour is coming to knock on the door.

But mostly I play uncreative, so I usually end up with micro, meculites and barracks

**Spaced Cowboy** · July 2, 2002, 08:57

1. tele - spying bonus can't be beat.
2. merc missles - usually do not waste time building the pp, I wait for the next one that knocks almost all of your waste down to 0. I'm usually hammering in this catergory to get nasty small missles ASAP
3. This is a toss up for me, spaceport of fighter garrison. I think that I'm about 50-50 on it. Armor barracks seems a waste.

**moomin** · July 2, 2002, 09:06

RPM: You're aware of the fact that PPs & ARs are cumlative? Pollution sure builds up fast once you get a decent sized pop with with autofactory and robo miner...

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 12:21

Originally posted by ravagon

2) Pollution Processor - in most cases I don't go on a general offensive early and rarely have to defend at this stage - again subject to change if there is an immediate need. Doesn't quite account for an absence of AF's though as the +1 per worker hasn't been factored in.

Sorry, if I confused anyone I was not saying I do not have AF built. That would be insane. I was only pointing out that the +5 production saved by the processor is equal to the boost from an AF (not counting the per worker part). I just showing it is a serious boost in production and goes in every planet and adds every turn. By the time you could get to Core Waste the game has been decided. It looks like the first two are universal.

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 12:32

Originally posted by ravagon

3) Fighter garrisons - Fighters/missiles are targetted first by an enemy offensive - need to keep my ships out of the line of fire for as long as possible. Plus they do replicate if you ever have battles that last 10 turns (This has happened to me once or twice

).
I generally rely on mostly heavy based defenses and ships at critical choke-points so Armour barracks are unnecessary - AI tends to bomb my planets out of existence more often than invading them anyway.
Spaceports are a luxury. If you really need the cash set one of your planets to trade goods for a while. Early on the 50% isn't really going to amount to that much anyway unless you have a race that grows large pops quickly.

Remember this point in the game you may only have two colonies and one of them will be just getting started. No threats are likely at this time. Cash on hand improves your change of getting a leader and that can be a big boost. The farther the game goes the more you get from a space port and the less you need garrisons.

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 12:49

Originally posted by RPMisCOOL
12. merc missles - usually do not waste time building the pp, I wait for the next one that knocks almost all of your waste down to 0. I'm usually hammering in this catergory to get nasty small missles ASAP .

Ah, I understand the fear my friend. Missiles are very comforting in the very early game. Down the road you will have given up a lot of production. All of the workers creating waste. You would be in a rush to get that AF up, but not to get the near equivilentence of one in the form of a processor? Note that when you get the renewer and add that you get back about 75% of the waste. If you manage to get nano dis, you can skip Core Dumps in favor of Deep Core. Anyway if your strategy is to skip those early reducer and wait for the Core Dump, you will give up a ton of production. When you get to the 3500 rp stuff you wil have already sealed the fate and on the road to doom or victory and will be hard to alter with tech. Another consideration is that you usually will have nothing better to build when you get to that point, except star base and that will likely have to wait until the planet is stronger. Anyway I can get by will Nuc until I switch to beams. In fact I may start out with a laser BB instead, if no contact for awhile.
Yes, I know you could move workers to sci to lower waste, but you will then not be able to build ship in any reasonable time frame, be they colony ships/base or capitol ships.

**Spaced Cowboy** · July 2, 2002, 14:11

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
RPM: You're aware of the fact that PPs & ARs are cumlative? Pollution sure builds up fast once you get a decent sized pop with with autofactory and robo miner...

Cumlative?? Hmmm...

Correct me if I'm wrong!

PP's give a 50% reduction
AR's give a 75% reduction

If you build a PP then an AR you get a 50% + 75% of the remain 50% or a total of 87.5%

I'm just saying that the PP doesn't seem to be worth the extra 12.5% reduction.

This usually equates to one or two points of lost production versus how many production points it takes to build it in the first place, hence I'm building something else.

**Garth Vader** · July 2, 2002, 15:23

1) micro vs telepathic training

Telepathic training, for the reasons given above. I like stealing!

2) pollution processor vs merc missiles

Pollution Processor. I don't put missiles on my ships so I have little need for them.

3) arm barracks vs fighter garrisons vs space ports

Space ports. You can't beat the cash, especially because I am often in a crunch in early-mid game.

I don't know why armor barracks are here, they are really useless. I have never been invaded when I have had more than 1-2 marines on a planet. If a planet is defended, the AI will just bomb it.

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 17:35

PP comes way before rewners. By the time I have researched and can build a renewer, it is worth it. I will not be working on any tiny or small planets at this stage. You just have to do the numbers in each case. I just went to a current game. Planet was making 68 ind with no pollution. I sold off the renewer and took a -10 pollution penalty. You tell if it worth it? This was with a PP. It is 50% reduction before pollution is calculated and then 25% for the renewer , then pollution is calculated. The calc is based on a number of factors and the size of your planet is one of them. Believe me when I tell you I have tested it. On a decent planet, by the time you can put on the renwer, it is worth it, unless you have Core Waste Dumps. Then you drop them in and never build the other two. This comes later and you may in fact never research it if not creative.

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 17:41

Glad to see you see it that way GV. I have been invaded, but it is rare and I am going to lose the game anyway (most likely, unless it was a newly conquered planet). I would not mind having the arm barracks to help prevent revolts when play a UNI race, non tele. Those long assimilations are a killer. Yeah. I know I could bomb them down or put even more troops down (that is what I normally do).

**Spaced Cowboy** · July 2, 2002, 17:43

Vmxa1,

You got my idea backwards. Sell off the PP and see what the results are? I always build renewers. I'm just saying that PP's may not be worth it?????

**vmxa1** · July 2, 2002, 18:05

Would not be the first time I got something backwards. Anyway, I sell it and now I have -3 for pollution and net 65. Since I only pay 1 for maint on the PP, what do you think I should do? Remeber, most of the planets are getting the PP before I have renewers and while they are likely to have nothing else to build. I will be earning an extra few industry every turn on every planet, not a bad thing.

**Garth Vader** · July 2, 2002, 20:23

I haven't tested effects, but I would hate to try and make it to the renewer without the PP, that's just too much wasted production.

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