MoO vs MoO 2

[Cptn. Proton]

10?
Oh well, I hate playing huge universes :P Well, I am more the multiplayer type...

I tend to give minister control to the planets... Well, but I have always in mind that's not optimal and I have a bad feeling :|

[vmxa1]

It is funny, but you are right, SE3 and 4 have tons of cool stuff, but they are not that much fun. Not sure why.
I mostly play on small to avoid most of the leg work. I am not holding my breath for any game that can mitigate the micromanagement and still be fun. Stars tried by, making it so you could create a model queue that can be use on every planet.
A bit more fun and less work is STUN (starships unlimited), it is real time, but very little management needed.

[moomin]

Yeah, getting the MM balance between control and busy work is a difficult task indeed in any 4x game, given how the proper trade-off shifts around all the time.

That's why I'm so disappointed Moo3s IFPs are out - I'm not so sure they'd actually work, but even an offhand chance they would was great.

[Spaced Cowboy]

So what it is that makes thee games fun?

I like making my own race.
I like designing my own ships.
I like tactical combat. (Although for TBS, he who goes first, has to be fixed)
I like having some control over my planets (more like MOO less like 2)
I like determining the course of my research (but for playability sake why can't it be somewhat random especially in the quality department: instead of speed 3 you might get speed 2.5 or 4)
There is not a planetary combat model that is good (prolly cuz no one has any idea how it should work).

What did I forget (just remember one man's peach is another man's pit)?

R:PM

[vmxa1]

I think it is like porn, no one can define what it is, but they know it when they see it.
The one item in your list, tactical combat, I think Moo2 should have stuck with the defender goes first (patches changed it). The way some resolve it is to use inititive. If that is equal, then on neutrual ground, let the attacker go first, otherwise the defender.

[Garth Vader]

Defender first would have been interesting. Offensive weapons were too effective in endgame. One cruiser shouldn't be able to take out 5 doom stars in one round.

[vmxa1]

That is why the onus should be on the aggressor. It is one thing when a massive fleet shows up and if you have all your forces mustered, and still you could not defeat it, fine. When a force shows up and you could defend, but they go first and then wipe you out or reduce you so much you lose, I hate that part. Like you say it is not hard to do late in the game. That is why I view the warp device as so important. If you do not allow another planet to be occupied in any of your systems and have the warp built, they can not get there without you being able to get some defenders in place. I leap ahead to get the Star Gate so I can send everything if need be.

[Garth Vader]

That's why I like the idea of at least semi-real time combat. Plus keeping defensive abilities in line with offensive.

Your idea is a good fix for Moo2's problem. Although it would make invading a warp-interdictor/star gate race near impossible. Phased cloak would actually become useful

[moomin]

GW, Phased Cloak is already useful. In combination with TWF, that is...

[Garth Vader]

With that case I can only see it being useful if it allows you to rephase after firing, but before they can fire at you.

Once I found out that the AI can see cloaked ships, I stopped using it. I did use it once with good success in my attempt to attack Antares and capture all ships with only one doom star.

[moomin]

The Phase Cloak/Time Warp combo allows de-cloaking, shooting and re-cloaking in one turn, yes. It's a total gamebraker, but at least it's end-tech.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by moominparatrooper
The Phase Cloak/Time Warp combo allows de-cloaking, shooting and re-cloaking in one turn, yes. It's a total gamebraker, but at least it's end-tech.

Thats before the patch though I believe. Post 1.31 the patch puts your second TWF move/fire phase after the end of the oppositions turn - hence no re-cloaking until the after you've been attacked.

[moomin]

No, it works just as great after the patch. You just have to phase differently.

Turn begins.
Your move. (Do nothing)
AI move. (Can do nothing)
Your move. (Uncloak, fire)

Next turn.
Your move. (Cloak)
AI move. (Can do nothing)
Your move (Uncloak, fire)

and so on...

They tried to fix the breakage, but they failed miserably.

[aaglo]

Moo1 is great:
a) low micromanagement
b) huge fleets
c) pure strategy
d) multi-goal research

Moo2 is great:
a) upgradeable ships
b) leaders
c) multi-planetary systems
d) race generator

Thus I choose both

[ravagon]

No, it works just as great after the patch. You just have to phase differently.

Doh!
Heh, I never thought of trying it that way, er, I mean I think thats a cheap tactic that exploits a game bug.

Actually I've never used the phase cloak before on anything except a scout which has nothing else but a wide-area jammer and the warp disruption thingummy.
I'm too fond of my super-defense Doomstars which already have all of the specials filled up.