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  • #16
    No manual = yuck.

    I'm also hoping for a manual. After all, you know how hard it is to curl up in bed with a nice computer monitor?
    -Sencho

    "Even the clearest and most perfect circumstantial evidence is likely to be at fault, after all, and therefore ought to be received with great caution. " - Mark Twain

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    • #17
      Good side of PDF format is that it is exacly the same both on PC & Mac.
      Since MOO3 is done for both platforms, if MOO3 has an electronic manual it will probably be a PDF.

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      • #18
        I like to read about my new games in the bed before I go to sleep. So I would like to get a printed version. BTW in reality I think we cannot expect a 400 pages all singing-dancing book for this game.
        Maybe the best solution is to produce a kind of quick start and user manual printed booklet, with backgound story and basic game description, and the real reference manual on the disk in electronic format. This solution has an another advantage. When QS patch the game, they can patch the reference manual to synchronize the game with the manual.
        Blade

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        • #19
          In order to actually pay for a game we coule easily (like our friend Roman probably does ) get on a pirated CD or two, we demand some essentials.

          One of them is the paper manual. Glossy or not, pretty or ugly, 800whooping pages or 200 slim-line, full colored or (a-la BG2) black and white... we need a manual.

          On a second thought... make it a good one too

          PDF .doc my arse... these will be included anyways (probably a .PDF) so I wouldn't worry if I was to get it pirated - paper or not, they'll have a pdf and/or .doc manual on the CD.

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          • #20
            I am a paper man as well. I like to look at the manuals when I am not at the computer, and if you are having problems it's nice to be able to look at the manual and the game at the same time.
            Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wan's apprentice.

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            • #21
              To paraphrase the book 'HeadCrash,' I'll give up my dead tree versions when they make a full-colour e-book reader that can survive the drop from my lap to the bathroom floor.

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              • #22
                Good one, SuiteSisterMary

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                • #23
                  Unfortunantly....

                  I saw something yesterday that struck me as a hearald of the demise of the paper manual.

                  And that is the reduced size packaging for computer games. Its been a while since I was in a store that had computer games, and when I first saw one of those game boxes, I thought it was for one of the console systems. But no, I looked closer and it was a PC game. Looking further in their games section, they had lots of these smaller size boxes.

                  Admittedly, these boxes were for games mostly targetted at young children or non-gamers. The boxes for gamer games like Civ3 were still full size. And this was a chain store, not a computer game store. But if I recall correctly, I have heard that Walmart will within the next year or so(if they haven't already) require that all computer games they sell be sold in these reduced size packages. Apparently, once they switch, it won't matter if the game is the hottest item out there and it can't be kept on shelves, if it doesn't meet the standards for reduced size packaging, they won't carry it.

                  The reason that I call this a hearald of the demise of the paper manual is that these boxes really were smaller. They weren't that much bigger than the boxes for console games. I can think of only two game manuals for games I've played where the manual might have rated as a cockroach-killer that would have fit into that box. Ironically, both are Firaxis games, Gettysburg and SMAC.

                  And while I don't think that most game companies that produce games that need cockroach-killer treeware to go with them will hesitate to make manuals that fit in that box, this is a sign of a trend.

                  The reduced size packaging of today will probably become almost non-existant packaging some time down the road. Within a few years, the reduced size packages will probably be replaced by DVD-case style packaging, shrinkwrapped jewel cases, or something similarly minimalist.

                  Why? Well, maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I fear that when game publishers realize how much they can save by eliminating the treeware, and making the package only as large as needed to hold the game media, and that most people won't realize same and still pay the same prices... well, you get the picture. And I'm willing to bet that by the time publishers are taking this leap DVD laden systems will be prevalent enough that most games will ship on a DVD instead of one or more CDs anyway, further shrinking packaging needs for some of the more massive games.

                  Anyway, thats my take on the future of paper manuals.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Unfortunantly....

                    Originally posted by Bleyn
                    Why? Well, maybe I'm just a pessimist, but I fear that when game publishers realize how much they can save by eliminating the treeware, and making the package only as large as needed to hold the game media, and that most people won't realize same and still pay the same prices... well, you get the picture. And I'm willing to bet that by the time publishers are taking this leap DVD laden systems will be prevalent enough that most games will ship on a DVD instead of one or more CDs anyway, further shrinking packaging needs for some of the more massive games.
                    Smaller packaging means less waste, lower manufacturing costs, and easier (cheaper) shiping.
                    Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                    Do It Ourselves

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                    • #25
                      no paper manual? burn the game - i'm not willing to pay money for a simple cd-rom in a dvd-box (like a lot of new releases in europe)...

                      for me a good game is a perfect combination of the prog itself, a well edited manual (book) and a shiny box for the rack. well, i'm a collector...

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                      • #26
                        I still have the MOO manual. Twas small, with the damn spaceship pictures with the names you should learn by heart in case you lost the manual... Small but served the game well. Currently, I think most manuals are mostly a waste of space and I just got rid of a half dozen game boxes that cluttered my room. A manual the size of the original MOO, or Civ if you have to put lots of things in it, would be good enough. I hate having to carry a huge box with a tiny CD and a big paper block which isn't worth reading twice (so clicking is done with the left button, whoa!).
                        Clash of Civilization team member
                        (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                        web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                        • #27
                          While I'm all with the paper manual crowd (there needs to be _some_ incentive for paying for games, right?) let me just say that a good manual is ultimately more important than a paper manual. I hate .pdfs just as much as the next guy, but the "manual" that shipped with Civ3 is a complete waste of space and paper. I just downloaded a short-key guide for the game and have already put away that manual where it won't be found again.

                          If the manual is that lousy, who cares what format it is, eh?
                          "The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000)." - chegitz guevara on the history of the USSR.
                          "I think the real figures probably are about a million or less." - David Irving on the number of Holocaust victims.

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                          • #28
                            I hope we can get some feedback from Stormie about what's being done with the manual and the Strat guide. If anybody knows how to keep the manual and strat guide better integrated with the rest of the design process it should be Alan.

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                            • #29
                              Well I prefer the whopping great 200+ page novel of a manual. Complete with background info, race history, tech trees, weapon/ship/unit lists, etc. The whole enchil..., er lot. With a good index you can decide what you need to read and what to ... not. If it costs more then do it anyway and put it in the limited edition (only be sure to actually put it in, er, unlike some LE's ). I would much prefer this to some tiny incomplete 20 page thing (half of it taken up by the installation guide) or a .pdf/other format file that one has to alt-tab to in the middle of a game.
                              From what I've seen of this game it deserves a good manual and it would be a shame if this were to detract from the game itself.
                              Strategy guides I can take or leave as I tend to enjoy the process of coming up with my own (successful or otherwise ) although there are exceptions (Smac/x a la Vel ).

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                              • #30
                                So far as I'm aware, everyone at QS wants a nice, thick manual. I'm rather distant from the final decisions on packaging, though, so I don't really know any details at this point.
                                If I'd known then what I know now, I'd never have done all the stuff that led me to what I know now...

                                Former member, MOO3 Road Kill...er, Crew

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