Tactical Combat

[Whoha]

I don't like tactical combat off, and the very few multiplayer games that I played had people pulling amazing stuff that I wasn't ready for that simply aren't possible with strategic combat.

[Zoetrope]

Since I'm a builder, and defer military technology and fleet construction and deployment, at impossible (where tech trading is so one-sided) in single player I often encounter daunting enemy fleets.

Sometimes the AI's tactics take me by surprise: they certainly are good at capturing ships.

The trickiest stage is the 50 to 100 turns before I have good targetting computers, which means Moleculartronic, because at the lower levels I prefer the other tech choices, don't select Creative, and don't take ship attack bonuses.

One can do a lot of early damage with Mirv Nukes, which is just as well for me as I usually choose Pollution Processor, Atmospheric Renewer, etc, and my shields are pathetic, too, if I have any.

However, it's not until _nearly too late_ that I have enough ships to launch a decent number of missiles. Usually by the time I have fleet parity, my fleet has about a 50-50 chance of taking the nearest enemy homeworld, depending on how lucky my timing is: "Oh no, they're going for my second best system!", or, "Darn! They blasted my refuel outpost just before I arrived", or "Help! Their fleet is huge, and I can't hit it!"

I have been taught how to blitz: Mike Montgomery gave detailed instructions that allowed even me to take over the galaxy very quickly, mostly using nukes or lasers. It's just that I prefer to "turtle" as a homeboy, or to overexpand as an industrialist, or to build up ten or twenty worlds while researching toward Autolabs and Morale-Using Android Workers.

Since missiles do hurt planetary installations too much, it would be good to make surface buildings tougher, but I don't have a tool for that, so I'd be inclined to use OCL to, for example, make missiles require more space, and/or weaken their warheads.

I have experimented with making 1-space Interceptor bays that recharge every turn. That certainly makes missiles (and everything else) redundant. So a more moderate improvement in fighter stats would be preferable. Another good thing would be to add Point Defence mods to more techs, so that Fighters will use them. E.g. Ion Pulse Cannon Interceptors would be very effective against many ships, while doing less harm to star bases and planets.

Yet another possibility would be to attempt to make the EMG missile mod more compact and cheaper, while making missiles in general large, expensive and weak. That would serve to preserve colonies while devastating fleets.

But I reckon the best and simplest way to keep planets, most of the time, from being glassed when all one wants is to blow the defences out of the sky, would be to remove the Dauntless Targetting System from each race's tech tree, or push it permanently to the very top of the tree - or mark it, if possible, as a Xenon (unresearchable) tech.

Another idea to improve the challenge of Tactical combat in single player is to study the techs that the AI likes to put on ships, make those techs the strongest, and make techs the AI doesn't choose weaker, or in the case of enhancers the AI doesn't choose, such as the Achilles Targetting Unit, much harder for us players to get.

With OCL, we can implement most of those changes now.

[vmxa1]

If you want to make planets better suited to with standing missile attacks, you could make a shield like the Barrier Shield come very early and cheap to build.

Maybe a weaker version of it or a stronger version of the first one (radiated?).

Of course I have no idea of how hard that would be to do.

[siron]

Since missiles do hurt planetary installations too much, it would be good to make surface buildings tougher, but I don't have a tool for that,

I thought about the same problem. In DC mod I reduced missile damage slightly and improved class1 to class2 and radiation shield is avaible for non-creas. Radiation plus class2 blocks nukes with 7 damage in DC mod. In regular moo you need c3 and radiation to neutralize nukes. But only crea can have them both early on.

Improving hitpoints of buildings. Have you thought about the following? Adjust basic hitpoints of ships (reduce them) and improve the armor bonus. With this combination you could achieve your goal...but I have not made play testing.

So a more moderate improvement in fighter stats would be preferable.

The above-mentioned idea should also work for fighters. But I havent tested the idea so far....

Another idea to improve the challenge of Tactical combat in single player is to study the techs that the AI likes to put on ships, make those techs the strongest,

I proposed this idea on LBs board. BUt mainly multiplayers there....so there was not enuff feedback....I would try to help....

If you want to make planets better suited to with standing missile attacks, you could make a shield like the Barrier Shield come very early and cheap to build.

Maybe a weaker version of it or a stronger version of the first one (radiated?).

Of course I have no idea of how hard that would be to do.

I agree that this solution is straight forward. And in the next mod version I improve planetary shields and missiles will have their old values.
Improving planetary shields is quite easy. Grig de Griz provided details on LBs board.

[theCzar]

It's easy to design killer ships in SP, but it's in MP that it makes all the difference. My first MP game was a real eye-opener, you tend to find ships that work in SP and stick with them, but in MP they can get countered and the fun is in trying to stay a step ahead of the competition.

Lord knows how many designs i've loved and abandoned over the years, I used to give my beam weapons a 270 firing angle But you lose and you learn

Without ship design, there's not much to Moo in my opinion.

hey which is better, a MIRVed nuke, or a regular merculite?

[siron]

Originally posted by theCzar
...My first MP game was a real eye-opener, you tend to find ships that work in SP and stick with them, but in MP they can get countered and the fun is in trying to stay a step ahead of the competition.

...

Without ship design, there's not much to Moo in my opinion.

Hi,
have you tried kali recently?

Ship design and combat are imho almost perfect. At least for MP.

[theCzar]

Originally posted by siron


Hi,
have you tried kali recently?

Never, in fact only recently discovered it. I play with a mate across home network (now that university clamped down on games across theirs...)

It's definitely better if you can play in the same room as your opponent, it's more like a game of poker... lots of verbal bluffing and fact dropping...

my favourite move, is the soft oooh of pleasure, then turn the screen away from opponent (eyeing them suspiciously, smiling slightly) and work feverishly for a few minutes.

[siron]

Originally posted by theCzar

It's definitely better if you can play in the same room as your opponent, it's more like a game of poker... lots of verbal bluffing and fact dropping...

Try the new 1.4 patch with the noreport switch. You cant see the techs of your opponents in this case......THAT's a lot of poker then!

When you need verbal bluffing....well there is also teamspeak....some players are using it.