Web site for Moo2 4 way league.

[P-K]

Ok guys, I see that u miss a web site like we got on old ladder. I spoken to Glimmer and he enlighten me that I could do one for u.

But its not all so easy. Old lader is a dynamic web site with use of a database and some advanced code, which i m not good at. But the hopes arent lost. I can make a web site even tommorow starting from a very basic concept and improve it with each day. I got friend who might wrote it like it should be but unfortunately it costs . So I ll do it alone for now. Results would be post here on this forum or I can make a new forum for it. After I will know how elo formula works I ll make a excel doc and put the numbers in it to calculate and copy results on the web site. U know im on kali almoust each day and have enough time to put results on web site too.

Sooo whos with me

PK

[P-K]

Cyber just informed me that Step is doing web site already. Sorry i didnt know :\

PK

[Glimmer]

Looks like step alrdy starting one me n PK did not keep up with news enough I guess. This one step working on well have all the features of the 1v1 ladder as well.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Peace

[P-K]

Hmm maybe I could help Step abit. Step what do u think?

PK

[StepNRazor]

Pk yes I would lve some help.

I'm kind of stuck right now. I cant find a development toolf for ASP that runs on 98.

Not useing a dev tool means just running changes and looking at a web page to see if it "looks" right. Well that only shows what you can see, maybee a change in code changes something you did not expect it would and oyu don't see the effect becuse it is on a data storage or something. After a few changes that have unexpected changes to other area the code is unreliable. This is not exceptable.

So like I said I'm kind of stuck, if you can find an ASP tool for XP and check changes so they dont touch other sections of code we do not expect them to then I think we could work together with the old cod otherwise perhaps I can help you with new code.

I am so happy you took this step forward PK, you are doing what your vote said "Leading us PK" =)

[StepNRazor]

Heres a couple links that have some tutorails on ASP and other web dev methods.

http://www.w3schools.com/asp/

http://forums.devshed.com/

[P-K]

Hmmm I`m bit confused now. Do u need a tool for ASP working under 98 or xp ? Second thing is a fact I have no idea what asp is . I ve read these links but this is a high tech section. I have no idea how to use it. As I wrote in my 1st post I can do a simple web site based on emails as entries or posts at forum. As I see it your doing some advanced project which is beyond my current skills. I`m sorry.

However I can design some graphics and html code for your web site Step. Its not much but its all I know for now.

PK

[StepNRazor]

Ok looks like HTML, one way or another ASP is out for both of us.
If there is anything can do to help let me know.

[P-K]

Step should i make a basic project and place it on internet? And what about this new elo formula?

PK

[StepNRazor]

PK thanks for picking up the moo banner and charging the hill you the man PK. I think the moo comunity did verry well in seeing you a great high council member you certainly are.

Another recognizeg high concil member Siron has beeni doing some spread sheet work on the ELO scoreing. I do think he has it compleated as there are some issues of special bonus consideration and other elemnts to tighten up.

Me and I'm sure the rest of the moo comunity at kali tank you both =)

[P-K]

Thank u Step for good words . Together we shall make moo2 rememberd for centuries . Tommorow I ll start making basic project and place it on internet. Next days I ll improve it. When Siron will finish his elo project the web site will be complete and all the math stuff shall be done. First scores will be shown.

PK

[P-K]

Project started.

See: http://masteroforion2.w.interia.pl/

I would be greatfull for all ideas and comments written here in this topic.

PK

[ALEXlD]

Ah cool ...

Nice !!!

[ALEXlD]

14.07.2005 - I added new sub sites and 1v1 ladder.

I dissagree about a new 1on1, cos we have already a good one.

So I would say, a link to ur Kali Ladder is more than enuff.

New Ladder is just a waste of time, and there´s no need for a new one !!!

[siron]

I am also strictly against a new 1v1 ladder.

When you ask a chessplayer if he prefers to have one true worldchampion or 3-4 worldchampions (FIDE, PCA,...) the answer is clear. Almost any player complains about the current situation.
$$$ divided the chesscommunity.
And $$$ prevents a true reunification match.

$$$ is no issue in the moo2 community. Therefore, adding a new 1v1 ladder which concurs automatically with the old 1v1 ladder should be no issue at all. It is counter productive in itself.

Further, PK is convinced that his new ladder will be an improvement. I dont see this at all.

[22:36] [PK] first game
[22:36] [PK] u loose
[22:36] [PK] u have
[22:36] [PK] 1100 p
[22:36] [PK] u win first one
[22:36] [PK] u have 1900
[22:36] [PK] u see how unfair it is?

First of all, you dont have an elo after 1 game. It is just an elo estimate! And estimates are volatile by its nature. When the both players play again with opposite result, both players have an elo estimate of 1500.

There is nothing unfair at all. And estimates are the standard solution.

PK doesnt want to start with estimates. According to him each player should get an initial rating of 1200. IMO a big mistake.
Actually, I proposed same solution for team ladder but there is an important difference:

We will almost surely stay with our 11 teams. There will be no new teams. This isnt true for his ladder. New players will enter permanently. They get an (overrated) rating of 1200 and newbie bashing is the most attractive choice to improve his elo score then.

[22:37] [PK] the best guy
[22:37] [PK] should have highest score
[22:37] [PK] rank should not count on win 2nd vs 1st

Well, PK wants that the ranking depends on elo score. The old ladder contains this option. He just have to use this link here: http://www.pixelexiq.com/moo2/ladder...t.asp?sort=ELO

When he is pissed off that he will never reach INVER or Staffa then he should ask Marius if he can remove unranked (inactive) players. They could just get an asterisk and their elo downgrades to an estimate as long as they are inactive.

There is another small issue with seb79s elo. He played 24 games or so and he had a full elo. Then 6 games or so were removed and he just had an estimate again. (AFAIK u need 20 games for elo) After he played again several games he didnt get back an full elo. Well, I guess this was just caused because Marius fixed sth manually there. When PK would contact him, Marius could fix this issue within seconds.

alex d pointed out that even the maintenance issue which was mentioned by step is just a red herring.

Old ladder has asp. PKs new ladder depends on PK, who has to enter results manually ---> time lag. What happens when he is on vacation?

I am quite happy with the maintenance of the old ladder. (I guess the seb79 issue is unfixed because noone pointed it out to Marius.)
Actually, Marius gave the whole code to step. (But he doesnt have tools to read them.)

Well, when maintenance improvement should really be the issue: Step should give the code to PK (or Brutalisk or someone else).

I guess PK is clever enough to figure out the elo issues within hours.

So here is my summary:

I really see no improvement at all and adding a coexisting ladder is evil in itself.

Therefore, I am strictly against it.