Critique My Tech Tree

[Widget4]

I've played creative races almost exclusively and it has really prevented me from understanding how to tailor my tech tree development to my race and game environment. So I've outlined a tech tree path for how I would usually attempt to proceed in a non-creative race, turtle strategy game. (Game Parameters: 8 player, Impossible, Average Resources, Pre-warp, Huge galaxy, Antarans attack, tactical, random events, my races tend to be repulsive and I usually take the human picture.)

My planning for a turtle/tech heavy game presupposes two critical phases that my tech development has to be able to deal with.

Phase I (Opening Game) - Main objective is to start maximizing production to build colonizing ships. Secondary task is to get ready to field missile ships if they are necessary. (Latest idea, hold off on building combat ship shells or actual loaded ships, unless attacked. Use self-destructing scouts with an interceptor to defend colonies. If a colony is going to be invaded in 3 or 4 turns get some kamikazes built. Scouts are quick to build and have a powerful, one shot attack if you self destruct them. A handful of these interceptor scout kamikazes might be able to take out the enemies opening game ships (especially if a missile base is on your colony).

Tech path in chronological order:

(The order of these techs can change depending on what kind of start occurs.)

1. Electronic computer (Computers)
2. Research lab (Computers)
3. Reinforced hull (Construction)
4. Automated Factories (Construction)
5. Freighters (Power)
6. Standard Fuel (Chemistry)
7. Colony Ship (Power)
8. Biospheres (Biology)
9. Cloning Center (Biology)
10. This is a hard one for me because I probably won't come back to Chemistry for a while. I want the Neutronium armor, but the map I get might make Deuterium fuel a necessity. So I'm taking Deuterium here. (Chemistry)
11. Pollution Processor (Not with UniTol race), Merculite Missile with a UniTol race (Chemistry)
12. Space Academy (I'm probably starting to build star bases and I like to have these built before my SB). (Sociology)
13. Battle Pods (Construction)
14. This is another hard one. The Spaceport is an empire income boost and Fighter Garrison is an excellent colony defense tech. I could go either way (it really depends on my kamikaze scout defense strategy outcome). (Construction)
15. Robo Miners (Construction)

End Of Phase I. My empire has decent tech for building ships. The number of techs listed may take way too long, though. I'll probably have to throw out cloning center and some others. <-- I'm hoping someone sets me straight on what I've got so far.

Phase II - The main objective here is to prepare to start building a modest Beamer fleet that can cause pain. At this point my turtled empire probably has rising costs so I have to get an income boost, too. Phase II is tough for me. If I haven't made any mistakes in phase I, then I'll definitely go off the rails here. The enemy is usually starting to get frisky at this point. He no longer respects my vicious kamikaze scout fleet (most likely never did). I'm noticing a bunch of Klackon transports sitting about 3 parsecs from one of my decent colonies. However, for the purposes of my tech tree, I'm going to assume that my enemies are inexplicably taking a passive approach and allowing me more time to research empire boosting tech.

16. Neural Scanner (Computers)
17. Positronic Computer or Supercomputer? This one drives me crazy. I want both. I choose Supercomputer, but it's a tough call. After all, I am in Beamer Boat design mode. I'd love opinions on this choice. (Computers)

The last two picks were essentially to get ready for a tech rush. However, I need to grab some more production and income to support my fleet. The order here is another area I'm unsure about. Once I have Phase I production done, should I jump to researching beam tech or strengthening my Empire? (Note: I usually play unification races.)

18. Alien Management (Sociology)
19. Stock Exchange (Sociology)
20. Astro University (Sociology)
21. Galactic Unification (Sociology)

With GU and AU my colonies are midgame powerhouses. However, my beams are non-existent and I have no shields. I suspect this is way too long of a delay. Right about now my colonies are probably dealing with annoying incursions or all out invasions. I'm usually saying something like, "if I can just get to Grav beam and then Class I shield, no wait, I need Neutronium armour, no wait, I need to go for an all out Stellar Converter blitz. . .

I'll leave it there and see what you all have to say so far and because this is usually when things begin to go horribly wrong with my empire. Thanks for any suggestions.

Widget4

[vmxa1]

Re: Critique My Tech Tree

Originally posted by Widget4

1. Electronic computer (Computers)
2. Research lab (Computers)
3. Reinforced hull (Construction)
4. Automated Factories (Construction)
5. Freighters (Power)
6. Standard Fuel (Chemistry)
7. Colony Ship (Power)
8. Biospheres (Biology)
9. Cloning Center (Biology)
10. This is a hard one for me because I probably won't come back to Chemistry for a while. I want the Neutronium armor, but the map I get might make Deuterium fuel a necessity. So I'm taking Deuterium here. (Chemistry)
11. Pollution Processor (Not with UniTol race), Merculite Missile with a UniTol race (Chemistry)
12. Space Academy (I'm probably starting to build star bases and I like to have these built before my SB). (Sociology)
13. Battle Pods (Construction)
14. This is another hard one. The Spaceport is an empire income boost and Fighter Garrison is an excellent colony defense tech. I could go either way (it really depends on my kamikaze scout defense strategy outcome). (Construction)
15. Robo Miners (Construction)

End Of Phase I. My empire has decent tech for building ships. The number of techs listed may take way too long, though. I'll probably have to throw out cloning center and some others. <-- I'm hoping someone sets me straight on what I've got so far.

I don't see a problem with the first 8, though some may argue that you want to learn to fly sooner (not me).

#9 is one I tend to not use, but rather go for soil. Now this makes no sense if you are a Lith or something, so it is some what dependant.

What comes after 8 is game dependant. No contacts, eat food, then soil is often my choice here. I may want to race for robo miners though.

Do I have a uni race? If so I can hold off on spy techs, if not I may want to move them up a bit.

Fuel cells is often needed more than the first level of armor, I have been know to go either way and regret which ever I took. Well I never regret the Cells, I can always get along without the armor. I sometimes can get along without the cells.

I do not rush to neutronium and in fact often do not use it as I probably will have X armor by then. So I put off the pollution/merc choice most of the time till I have spy techs. If I have to deal with attacks, then I want that missile.

I may go with fusion beams after 10, if I have contacts. I want my star base to have some beam other than lasers. If I jumped on Mass Drivrs, then I will take the fusion rifle for my ground attack (non tele).

I am taking the space port in almost all cases. I have to know that I am going to be attacked by a fleet that I could not otherwise stop, before I take fighter garrisons.

This is a tech with a short life span, while the port is forever.

I doubt that tech choices make or break the game for most players, unless they were really done with no tought. It is what they are doing with the empire that mtters.

Are they looking at all the planets to maximize the output? Move pop when it is needed? Build the right structures using the optimal pop. Are you prebuilding and rushing key structures?

[Widget4]

Hi VXMA,

Thanks for the suggestions. You're right about Soil if your race eats. It's really the food equivalent of Spaceport. I forgot about it (been playing Lithovores a lot). Yes, I would take it over cloning center. You're also right about Spaceport. It's really crucial to having the cash to get a fleet up and maintained. If you have a fleet FGs are nice, but not critical.

Anyway, I think the weak spot for me is lack of a decent beam and armor. So I'm going to hold off on the Sociology research push #s 18-21 to GC and insert Mass Driver and Battle Scanner steps.

The only thing that bugs me about the Merc over PP is that the Merc kind of has a short period where it's useful until you get a beamer. PP is a huge production boost that lasts throughout the game. The trouble is the Merc is probably the best weapon in the early stages.

As far as managing my colony, I think I generally keep things together into the midgame, but then I can get sloppy. I always prebuild with a colony base or spy or something to retain my production. I'll designate one or two planets that pump out freighters or spies. The main question I have about managing my empire is whether I have too many buildings. Should I build Robo Miners on a planet devoted to farming? Will Robo generate income there if all the citizens are farming?

The other critical thing I have to start doing is thinning out enemy fleet buildups early on. I need to figure out how to do this better because I suspect it's the main reason I'm getting crushed. Anyway, thanks for the tips.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Widget4
The only thing that bugs me about the Merc over PP is that the Merc kind of has a short period where it's useful until you get a beamer. PP is a huge production boost that lasts throughout the game. The trouble is the Merc is probably the best weapon in the early stages.

As far as managing my colony, I think I generally keep things together into the midgame, but then I can get sloppy. I always prebuild with a colony base or spy or something to retain my production. I'll designate one or two planets that pump out freighters or spies. The main question I have about managing my empire is whether I have too many buildings. Should I build Robo Miners on a planet devoted to farming? Will Robo generate income there if all the citizens are farming?

The other critical thing I have to start doing is thinning out enemy fleet buildups early on. I need to figure out how to do this better because I suspect it's the main reason I'm getting crushed. Anyway, thanks for the tips.

I will take the PP over the missile in almost all case. If you are tolerant, then no PP. If you are about to be attacked and have poor beams/comps, no other planetary defense (my case), you may have to grab that merc.

I do not use farming planets perse. I will have as many planets as I can be self sufficent. It really is only about the home system and one other strong planet. The rest are just to provide CP's and RP's and range.

I like to build all the structures. Robo's will provide cash if you are in trade, even if no one is on industry, so they are a sure bet to build. Well maybe an UP, but even there I will want to terraform, so I need AF/Robo. Most of the time I will not colonize a UP.

As to fleets, I do it like this most of the time. After I get to Orion, I start to look for a race to take down. Usually a close one, but you often have more than one in range.

So I look at the fleets for each and pick the one that has the most and that I can catch quickly. IOW if the fleet is out of my range at the time, I will choose the other race.

After the war is going and I see it has coming to a close, I look for the next target. By then I want to hit the race with biggest fleet, if it is out of reach I will often drop an OP to reach it.

I do not want to have any large fleets about. Some games, you cannot see all the fleets. If I got Loknar, then I can see them.

[Brutalisk]

I tech for supercomputers a lot faster than you do.

Supercomputers is an investment.

After your "8" or "9" depending on the situation, you then head for supercomputers.

As for the spaceport vs fighter garisson, 99% of the times, I go with spaceport. If you want to think of it in terms of tradeoff, the extra $$$ you get from spaceports, you can use it to buy yourself some ships and those will do a much better defending (and attacking) than fighter garissons).

[MORON]

1-4 is standard.

5-7 is basic, but you can delay it if you have an good home system (or LHW/sub...etc) or is omni.(than you can choose to delay until you are ready to colonize) I usually delay colony ships until my scouts have visited the close by systems, as off home system colonies are hard to defend, harder to transport pop (so not as good as an pop grower) and very expensive, especially early on.

Don't have to get bio if you are sub/tol and is not uni/lith/aqua or have an -food pick.

9 can be too early IMO, unless you are sub/LHW/lith/+food picks or have an good home system. Once you fill your home planet, your other planets would start eating your home planet's food, often reducing net production as new systems won't have improvements for quite an while. (however this is more bliz orientated thinking) Also soils can be useful if you are lacking food or have +growth picks. (probably not for uni)

Personally, I'd rush to supercomp/robo miners/polluction -> zort/neutrium (especially if +production picks, like +1prod uni).

If I am safe from everything, I'd go supercomp. If I need weapons I'd robo or go up chemistry and grab armor and pwn everything with MIRV nuke CAs. (when with tele, this means pwning half the galaxy)

I want both. I choose Supercomputer, but it's a tough call. After all, I am in Beamer Boat design mode. I'd love opinions on this choice. (Computers)

If you have builder blood, supercomp is t3h winner. Get comps by spy/conquest/trade, or just pwn them with missile CAs before beams matter.

Once I have Phase I production done, should I jump to researching beam tech or strengthening my Empire? (Note: I usually play unification races.)

18. Alien Management (Sociology)
19. Stock Exchange (Sociology)
20. Astro University (Sociology)
21. Galactic Unification (Sociology)

With GU and AU my colonies are midgame powerhouses. However, my beams are non-existent and I have no shields. I suspect this is way too long of a delay.

Once I get supercomp and robo and polluction proc+atomsphere renewer, there are a few choices:
1. Go armor and missile people to death
2. Go deep core and win by numbers. If I have small number of uber planets, this is all more important.
3. Go beam tech + comms for command points and conquest. (or play warlord....I luv warlord)
4. So socio, but that tree is usually longer and gives no war tech alone the way. Astro-uni + stock is not as good as deep core with uni + taxes.
5. Go comps for max research, if everyone else is tied up.

Right about now my colonies are probably dealing with annoying incursions or all out invasions. I'm usually saying something like, "if I can just get to Grav beam and then Class I shield, no wait, I need Neutronium armour, no wait, I need to go for an all out Stellar Converter blitz. . .

You are thinking about wrong solutions, IMO. When my colonies are being attacked, I think about:
ARMOR!
MORE MISSILES~~~ (I'm talking about 200+)
BB DOOM FLEET~~~

To use beam, you need comp + beam. To use missiles, you only need chem, and you get armor too. Shields sucks early game. (and later you get damper field anyway) If you have super armored ships with lots of missiles, you can kill early beamers, and more importantly, starbases and such easily.

12. Space Academy (I'm probably starting to build star bases and I like to have these built before my SB). (Sociology)

I usually don't get this until after super comps, and often after autolabs. Missile ships really don't need it that much.

Should I build Robo Miners on a planet devoted to farming? Will Robo generate income there if all the citizens are farming?

YES You can never have too much production. (or autolabs) Robo repay itself in 20~30 turns and its production boost gives better return than most other stuff even if no one works it. Unless you are fighting, you can always get a robo when other buildings are done. (personally, I get robo as my 4th/5th building at the latest) You can either use the taxes, or housing or prebuilds.

Once you get later food techs and terraforming, dedicated food planets would have surpluses too, (I had +100 food, and I didn't even build weather controllers) and you can convert them to production planets. Nothing quite like 30+ pop planets with deep core + robo + AF + recycle + Astro and still 40+ food production..... *giggles* I build all economy improving buildings unless I need ships/spy/freight. No point using trade goods since I can sell....

[MORON]

Also, always keep an decent military if you can to keep attacks away. There is also no reason to turtle if some guy with nothing but titanium armor shows up beside you.....

[Tiemler]

Agreed on the Spaceport versus Fighter Garrison, and I'll add that FG never struck me as particularly effective. The fighters take too long to destroy enemy ships, and generally will be overwhelmed by more than a token effort on the part of the opponent.

[siron]

Against AI there is almost always enuff time for early supercomps in huge pre (as mentioned by brutal).

Many veterans prefer a different start for non-lith prod-races (fe uni aqua 2prod rich hw etc).

1.) Early col bases are important.-->Housing
2.) Therefore freighters are important. (Otherwise u lose 50k pop per turn on the housing planets.)
3.) If u play such a race (that can even produce an early colony ship without autofacts) even fuel cells are interesting after freighters to scan the neighborhood.
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