The Silicoids And Sakra Are Laughing At Me

[Old n Slow]

I usually play Creative, LHW, subbie, -GC, -SD, and the other features vary -- either rep or Low G as the minus & either Uni, Dic/+2prod, and once I’ve tried Aquatic.

Turtle style suits & some hints regarding that:

Try the advanced start sometime -- it feels a lot easier as the computer “gives” a generous start. All the races have 3 ships, and all the planets have battle stations. No one has RLs so these must be built. Anyway Impossible huge feels more like Hard mid size.

As a creative turtle, missile bases make some sense -- in fact I tend to build them as SOP. I tend to put them in the build queue after about 4-6 other buildings (usually prod/growth).

Ship design is BIG. Refitting ships with more guns, better guns, better features with those guns is BIG.

Early research with prewarp is similar to others -- although I go for EC & RL first, (RH)/AF next & then the three space ship techs -- I’m not going to go anywhere until the other stuff is built, so having a scout out there doesn’t add significant value. Next step is a couple techs in the Bio line. Then I’ll start with the 250 research cost techs as the colony bases fill out the home system.

Next comes a couple of techs in the Chem line -- both for the cheap pollution ease & missile boats. After that it might come down to a coin toss. On the one hand, the first three techs in FF will allow Autofire Mass Drivers (with class III shields) -- a nice early BB. In fact I think this BB can usually take out any of the monsters -- thus allowing colonization of nearby nice places that the AI has missed. If however, a couple of missile boat & scout combos can hold the fort, getting the next couple of computer techs is very nice.

Getting Robo & Battle stations follows, and as a turtle I tend to get the next couple of Bio techs (which also improve the spies) for terra forming. After terraforming, I’ll look for the next techs to get Auto Labs, a couple of Chems for Zort/Micro/Nano and another couple of Forcefield techs and Construction techs. This should allow a couple of Missile Titans (with mirv mercs for any planet stuff) and the rest of the fleet will have a number of AF MDs (during the mid game) -- be sure to add the RT/SA -- they make a worthwhile difference.

(I recommend researching Force fields & going the mass driver/Gauss Cannon route for guns up through late mid-game. In fact a single Titan with Autofire Gauss Cannons (with RT, SA, Battle Scanner & the appropriate Cybertronic computer) takes out the Orion guardian with beams to spare.)

This means that Physics (with all of their nice guns) and Power tend to get researched last -- If I’m not going anywhere, getting there fast is not a priority. With any luck, the middle Soc techs might be acquired via other means, saving a tier or two of research.

[Widget4]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Often a creative pick would want to not have another creative in the game. So use the Psilon pix for your race. One of the values of that tactic is that a turtle game will let that othe creative be around long enough to get some of the better tech and maybe trade it or have it stolen. This means you may have to face those techs.

Thanks, you're right. I have a weird thing about the way I start this game. One of my quirks is that I will always use the human picture because I tend to think they're the weakest of the AI races. I also use it because I want the Silicoid, Sakra, and Klackons in the game because they tend to be tough.

Although I have found that the creative races, if they aren't subdued by the Klacks-Saks-Sics races, can be a nightmare in the end game. In the Impossible game I won I figured after I dispatched the Saks late in the game the Psilons would be easy pickins'. I had a Doomstellie fleet (around 10 of them with more on the way, about 17 C3/C5 shield titans on my various planets, and some small stuff wandering around) and SCs on all my planets. So I attacked the Psilons and knocked out one of their B planets. I hadn't been attacked even once by the Psilons throughout the game.

Suddenly, a massive Doomstar fleet (around 24 Dooms, lots of Titans, and small assault shuttle/interceptor hell type ships) appeared and made a beeline for my home system. Okay, I'll send a couple of my new Doomies, all my titans, and some small stuff there and make a spirited defense, whittle their fleet down. It'll be fun. Maybe I'll wipe their fleet out. If they have SCs it will only be on one or two ships. I'll probably still have the upper hand.

When the fleet arrived every Psilon Doomie had an SC and just ravaged my Titans. After their first firing round, I had zilch left. The planet was destroyed. Whoah hey, I've got a game on my hands here. Fortunately, I had much better drive technology so I split my doom fleet up into three 3 ship fleets (not my preferred number), got a couple new DSs online and sent them to the Psilon systems hoping I'd meet no Psilon DS resistance. If I had gotten to Orion first I would have had omni and things would have been easier, but the Psilons got their first. Anyway, I had more planets and got to the Psilons quicker so I won, but my empire was hammered. I still had my fleet intact and knocked the Bulrathi out, but if the Bulrathi had had any kind of decent fleet and went on a rampage I may have lost the damn game.

Normally, I haven't lasted in the game long enough to see what high tech races can do. I used to think they were nice to have in a game because when you take their planets you usually get some tech, but they can turn into a real menace. So I'm going to keep playing with a Human picture or an Elerian to make it a challenge.

Thanks for the advice, though.

Widget4

[Tiemler]

I've found that the humans can do pretty well if they're given some elbow room. By contrast, the Feudal pick always puts the Elerians at a crippling disadvantage, so I usually take their picture to get rid of what I see as the weakest race.

[Tiemler]

sorry duplicate

[Widget4]

Originally posted by Old n Slow

I usually play Creative, LHW, subbie, -GC, -SD, and the other features vary -- either rep or Low G as the minus & either Uni, Dic/+2prod, and once I’ve tried Aquatic.

Turtle style suits & some hints regarding that:


Try the advanced start sometime -- it feels a lot easier as the computer “gives” a generous start. All the races have 3 ships, and all the planets have battle stations. No one has RLs so these must be built. Anyway Impossible huge feels more like Hard mid size.

As a creative turtle, missile bases make some sense -- in fact I tend to build them as SOP. I tend to put them in the build queue after about 4-6 other buildings (usually prod/growth).

Ship design is BIG. Refitting ships with more guns, better guns, better features with those guns is BIG.

Early research with prewarp is similar to others -- although I go for EC & RL first, (RH)/AF next & then the three space ship techs -- I’m not going to go anywhere until the other stuff is built, so having a scout out there doesn’t add significant value. Next step is a couple techs in the Bio line. Then I’ll start with the 250 research cost techs as the colony bases fill out the home system.

Next comes a couple of techs in the Chem line -- both for the cheap pollution ease & missile boats. After that it might come down to a coin toss. On the one hand, the first three techs in FF will allow Autofire Mass Drivers (with class III shields) -- a nice early BB. In fact I think this BB can usually take out any of the monsters -- thus allowing colonization of nearby nice places that the AI has missed. If however, a couple of missile boat & scout combos can hold the fort, getting the next couple of computer techs is very nice.

Getting Robo & Battle stations follows, and as a turtle I tend to get the next couple of Bio techs (which also improve the spies) for terra forming. After terraforming, I’ll look for the next techs to get Auto Labs, a couple of Chems for Zort/Micro/Nano and another couple of Forcefield techs and Construction techs. This should allow a couple of Missile Titans (with mirv mercs for any planet stuff) and the rest of the fleet will have a number of AF MDs (during the mid game) -- be sure to add the RT/SA -- they make a worthwhile difference.

(I recommend researching Force fields & going the mass driver/Gauss Cannon route for guns up through late mid-game. In fact a single Titan with Autofire Gauss Cannons (with RT, SA, Battle Scanner & the appropriate Cybertronic computer) takes out the Orion guardian with beams to spare.)

This means that Physics (with all of their nice guns) and Power tend to get researched last -- If I’m not going anywhere, getting there fast is not a priority. With any luck, the middle Soc techs might be acquired via other means, saving a tier or two of research.

Hi Old n Slow,

Instead of starting with an Advanced start to make things a bit easier and to learn, I took VXMA's advice and played an 8 player, Hard, Pre-warp, Average, everything on, Human picture game to make things easier. That's where I realized my ship building was retarded. This was due to me always using the latest researched weapon instead of an older weapon with mods. Once I realized that error, I actually took some time to find out what the mods actually do (I'm a lazy gamer ) and everything changed. I started making ships with some punch. I never used to make beamers with fusion beams. I always researched right past it to get to the Gravitron and then had a ship that did like 45 dmg when things were going well.

Anyway, I'm still not sure about what mods are effective. I made an all point defense ship the other day and got into combat and the thing wouldn't fire, LOL. What the hell is this? Oh, this must be a purely defensive weapon for killing incoming missiles and shuttles (I'm assuming). Hmm, should I use this in some sort of combo offense/defense ship? Nah, give me the BFGs. I always use the Heavy mount (I don't remember the others) and any that increase damage or pierce armor. I don't use the mods that decrease accuracy or damage. I need to refine my mod designs and find some sort of available space to mod-strength balance. I'll take any advice you got on mods. You seem to like auto fire. I think I usually use it, but I'm not very subtle about how. My weapons tend to have a lot of mods, but maybe I need to stick with one or two and increase the number of shots.

"I recommend researching Force fields & going the mass driver/Gauss Cannon route for guns up through late mid-game. In fact a single Titan with Autofire Gauss Cannons (with RT, SA, Battle Scanner & the appropriate Cybertronic computer) takes out the Orion guardian with beams to spare.)"

You know, this was my preferred way to play when I first started playing MOOII. I just remembered that. This is a good tree to take because your starbases have great shields while you're building and I've found the cloak to come in handy in certain situations. The Gauss gun is a great a weapon, but if I remember right, there comes a time when it suddenly does nothing. I can't remember what used to happen to me with it, but I probably let it get obsolete somehow.

Anway, thanks for the advice.

Widget4

[Tiemler]

The Gauss gun is a great a weapon, but if I remember right, there comes a time when it suddenly does nothing. I can't remember what used to happen to me with it, but I probably let it get obsolete somehow.

Mass Drivers are rendered obsolete quickly, but Gauss Cannons inflict so much damage, so consistently, that they remain effective for quite a while. By the time they go obsolete, you should be generating enough RPs to blitz right through to Phasors and Disruptors.

I'm so attached to my force field weaponry that even when I'm looking for a challenge, I rarely limit myself to picking physics-based weapons.

[MORON]

[quote]Anyway, I'm still not sure about what mods are effective. I made an all point defense ship the other day and got into combat and the thing wouldn't fire, LOL. What the hell is this? Oh, this must be a purely defensive weapon for killing incoming missiles and shuttles (I'm assuming). [quote]
PD weapons have really short range, as in onto of the enemy....

Hmm, should I use this in some sort of combo offense/defense ship? Nah, give me the BFGs. I always use the Heavy mount (I don't remember the others) and any that increase damage or pierce armor. I don't use the mods that decrease accuracy or damage. I need to refine my mod designs and find some sort of available space to mod-strength balance. I'll take any advice you got on mods. You seem to like auto fire. I think I usually use it, but I'm not very subtle about how. My weapons tend to have a lot of mods, but maybe I need to stick with one or two and increase the number of shots.

I use the following when building beamers:
Heavy, Autofire, AP

Countious if I don't have good comp.

[Zoetrope]

Contests performed at the old Antares boards showed AF Gauss cannons to be the best ship to ship beam weapon at the alt-Einstein (all techs) level.

In two situations GC is inadvisable compared to heavier weaponry: (1) against moderately shielded planets; (2) against Antares because of the Reflection Field.

Beam weapons are halved against planets (ostensibly because of atmospheric dispersion), so a Hv Gauss cannon at 27 hits does 13 hits against a planet, but a Class 3 Planetary Flux Shield is enough to nix that.

Reflection Fields have a rate of reflection equal to 10 / (10 + H) where H is the number of hits by a beam weapon. As long as the RF holds up, the attacker's average self-inflicted injury is therefore 10H/(10+H) or (10 || H) as we say in electronics. So, a Hv Gauss cannon will be reflected 10/37 of the time, so the attacker suffers an average of about 7 hits for each shot they fire.

The remaining 20 hits strike the target, but Antaran Damper Fields reduce that to 5 hits. So the attacker injures itself more than the Antaran.

With more powerful weapons, the formula caps the reflected damage at 10 hits, so for weapons with over 40 hits (e.g. Hv Disruptor at 60 hits), the Antaran target is hurt more than the attacker.

Incidentally, I've never seen a Stellar Converter reflected.

Special equipment such as High Energy Focus (HEF), Structural Analyser and Achilles Targetting Unit, can make Hv AF Gauss Cannons effective against Antarans, but expect some losses on the occasions that such intensive fire is Reflected, especially if you try Gauss Cannons against the Antaran Star Fortress: that succumbs much better to Hv Disrupters, Maulers, Stellar Converters, Black Hole Generators, or one of my favorites, the Plasma Flux.

By the way, if you haven't tried the delights of the Stasis Field, please do. Some players regard its use as a cheat, it's available quite early in the tech tree, and you can fit it on Destroyers.

One of the things that disappointed me about MOO3 is the comparative lack of ship technology. MOO3 has missiles, beams, fighters, and the lightning field, but what happened to Boarding? Tractor Beams, Assault Shuttles, Transporters, Augmented Engines, (mid-tech) Cloaks? Ship design and tactics can be quite elaborate and very fun in MOO2, but in my experience MOO3's battles are all about firepower with no finesse and nothing worth watching: it's just a percentage game.

[Brutalisk]

"but in my experience MOO3's battles are all about firepower with no finesse and nothing worth watching: it's just a percentage game"

THAT is precicely the problem. Are its developers idiots? They took one of the best things about MOO2 and turned it into insignificant crap. It became the same thing like bloody "Imperium Galactica II" ; if any of you ever played that game.

[Widget4]

Originally posted by Zoetrope [/SIZE]
Contests performed at the old Antares boards showed AF Gauss cannons to be the best ship to ship beam weapon at the alt-Einstein (all techs) level.

In two situations GC is inadvisable compared to heavier weaponry: (1) against moderately shielded planets; (2) against Antares because of the Reflection Field.

Beam weapons are halved against planets (ostensibly because of atmospheric dispersion), so a Hv Gauss cannon at 27 hits does 13 hits against a planet, but a Class 3 Planetary Flux Shield is enough to nix that.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to remember. My Gauss ships would suddenly stop taking out planetary installations. In the past, I used to make entire fleets with only Gauss guns. (They were usually my best weapon.) I don't do that now, but that's probably why I started noticing the GC suddenly stop working.

[SIZE=1] One of the things that disappointed me about MOO3 is the comparative lack of ship technology. MOO3 has missiles, beams, fighters, and the lightning field, but what happened to Boarding? Tractor Beams, Assault Shuttles, Transporters, Augmented Engines, (mid-tech) Cloaks? Ship design and tactics can be quite elaborate and very fun in MOO2, but in my experience MOO3's battles are all about firepower with no finesse and nothing worth watching: it's just a percentage game.

I haven't played MOO3 because it just doesn't sound that fun. I'm still poking along with MOO2 and getting obsessed over it for brief periods and then leaving the Antaran homeworld for a year or two until another weird MOO obsession strikes me out of nowhere. MOO3 sounds like a new game that pays homage to MOO2, but really is something entirely different.

Anyway, that's great info. You're right about the Stasis Field. I didn't realize you could fit it on a destroyer. Hmm, that is almost like a cheat, but it's one I have no qualms about using. Taking the Sakra picture to avoid the Sakra? Can't do it. But a Stasis Field destroyer? I won't blink an eye. In fact, I think I'm going to start a game now. Thanks.

Widget4

[MORON]

You people get force fields before physics? Personally the force field tree gets researched last when I play, and only to get warp diss/indictator/stasis/interia nullifier. The main reason for that is due to lack of good comp until I get to the end of comp tree, and the lack of command points meaning my standing fleet size is hampered.

Right now in my -10 pick game (dict, -20 ship atk/def, repulsive), I'm having 50% taxes to break even funding, and I'm still only 2nd on fleet size. I guess thats what happens when 1/2 of my pop is droid workers....

[Tiemler]

Personally the force field tree gets researched last when I play, and only to get warp diss/indictator/stasis/interia nullifier.

It's good to know there's more than one successful approach. Keeps the game interesting.

I prefer Mass Drivers and Gauss Cannons because they allow me to chew up the enemy defenses from long range, cutting down on losses and on the need for point defense and other specials that come at the expense of firepower.

The main reason for that is due to lack of good comp until I get to the end of comp tree, and the lack of command points meaning my standing fleet size is hampered.

Between the Battle Scanner and Space Academy, my ships rarely have trouble hitting their targets from their starting positions, and consistently hit even tough targets if I move them forward a bit.

Supporting a large fleet shouldn't be a problem if your empire is large and well-developed. Did you research Subspace Communications and income-enhancing buildings?

Right now in my -10 pick game (dict, -20 ship atk/def, repulsive), I'm having 50% taxes to break even funding, and I'm still only 2nd on fleet size. I guess thats what happens when 1/2 of my pop is droid workers....

What are your positive picks?

[siron]

Originally posted by Brutalisk


THAT is precicely the problem. Are its developers idiots? They took one of the best things about MOO2 and turned it into insignificant crap.

The developers main aim were huger galaxies. TFs seems to be a necessary tool to control huger fleets then. When u use TFs i dont see a convincing solution to implement boarding and the other techs mentioned by zoe.

It's a tradeoff.

Mebbe a huger galaxy shouldnt have such an increase in colonizable planets. (and u can build starbases etc. at empty star systems so they are strategical important.) With such a solution you could have fleet sizes similar to moo2.

[MORON]

Originally posted by Tiemler
I prefer Mass Drivers and Gauss Cannons because they allow me to chew up the enemy defenses from long range, cutting down on losses and on the need for point defense and other specials that come at the expense of firepower.

Well, I don't go beams until I can get heavy phasors. By the time I go down the physics tree, it usually is the clean up stage of the game as my economy is usually well established.

Between the Battle Scanner and Space Academy, my ships rarely have trouble hitting their targets from their starting positions, and consistently hit even tough targets if I move them forward a bit.

Well, I often taking -20 ship atk as my neg pick, as they are not as harmful as -10 spy things or things subtract your production. I once faced an cloaked ai fleet late game and I have too say it was an hard battle.....

Supporting a large fleet shouldn't be a problem if your empire is large and well-developed. Did you research Subspace Communications and income-enhancing buildings?

I did get all the plus command point structures, and I really should upgrade all by starbases for battlestations now that I've stolen that tech a few turns before.....

What are your positive picks?

NONE Playing an well picked race is like cheating against the Ai....playing as uni tele warlord can end the game 100 turns earlier than my current game.... I'll probably get force field early next time I play warlord I guess, just to try out gauss....

I'm currently aiming for deep core mine....I stole deep core dump already though....