Realms Beyond goes to the cows (MOO1)

[Zed-F]

Hi, guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we at RB are starting up a series of MOO 1 (not MOO 2!) tournaments. I know there are still some MOO1 afficionados here so you might be interested in checking it out.

The RB community is a group of players who seek excellence through understanding all facets of a game, while avoiding cheating. We started out with Diablo and Diablo II, but have since branched out into other games. Some of you might be familar with our organized tournaments and succession games in Civ3 and GalCiv. You can see some examples of our philosophy here:

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/

and here:

http://realmsbeyond.net/galciv/

and an example of our highly successful Civ3 comparative tournament series here:

RB is starting up a similar MOO1 comparative tournament series here:

http://www.realmsbeyond.net/orion/imphome.html

It is worth noting that RB maintains a list of tactics which are considered "cheating" for Civ3 -- generally moves that are so strong or damaging to the AI that they kill variety in gameplay. This list of tactics has become widely accepted in succession game play at CivFanatics (the premiere host for Civ3 succession games) even for games not hosted by RB. MOO1 has a couple of tactics that are similarly abusive of the AI or the game interface, but not very many since the game is relatively simply designed. It has yet to be determined whether a similar list will be developed for MOO1. Since the game is well-understood already, if we do decide to come up with a list, we should be able to do so in short order. A couple examples of possible candidates for inclusion in such a list would be deliberately "backing a fleet up" with slow missiles, and retreating to the same planet you just fled from.

Anyway, if you're interested in checking it out, and find yourself in agreement with our overall philosphy regarding cheating, fair play, and the value of diversity in gameplay, then you'd be welcome to join us. We have several interested participants already, but the more the merrier!

[vmxa1]

Nice to see you guys doing these things. I would say the rebasing is a close call. The missile trick is fine. Since it is humans, I don't see any problems with either. It is only an edge against the AI and all games played by humans can use the same tactics.

[vmxa1]

tThe site looks good, but I did not find any link on the main page for Orion. This one: http://realmsbeyond.net/

[Bam-Bam_RB]

Try this link

http://realmsbeyond.net/orion

[vmxa1]

The other link worked as well, I was just hoping to see a link on the main reamsbeyond page to the Orion stuff so I could have one link for all.

[vmxa1]

I find that I played all the games realms selected and I like seeing the screenies for Moo1.

I would suggest you look at the AU forum to see how they are doing games. The concept of posting AAR/DAR's is very useful. It gives people (lurkers) something to do and it aids in learnig. It also can be used to see if someone has gone off the reservation.

Anyway thanks for the heads up.

[Zed-F]

I expect the link on the main page will come in time. The Orion page is quite new and might still be being worked on.

The reason we sometimes restrict tactics is not to allow easier comparison between different human players, it's to prevent the killing of variety in playstyle. For instance, an extreme example in Civ is the ROP Rape -- you get a Right Of Passage with an AI empire, move offensive troops next to all of his cities, and attack them all at once before the AI has a chance to respond. Why restrict this? After all, all human players can do it. The problem is, the move is so strong, so completely disabling to the AI, that if you are playing in a competition game, you'd be foolish NOT to ROP rape your rival AI empires. All of a sudden, the tournament becomes all about who can ROP rape their rivals the most quickly and thoroughly -- every game. That doesn't make for a very interesting tournament, or a very interesting game for that matter. There are also other, smaller matters that, when taken individually may not seem that important, but when taken together have a negative impact on variability in play. Furthermore, there are other gray areas where certain tactics can be appropriate in particular circumstances, but of which overuse is frowned upon.

We want to encourage a variety of approaches to the game, which helps keep things more interesting. If a tactic becomes so strong that everyone invariably uses it, and the game doesn't have built-in coping mechanisms for that tactic, then there is the potential for a tournament game to revolve around who uses that single tactic most successfully. That wouldn't be in anyone's best interest.

As I mentioned, I don't know whether we will be generating a list of restricted tactics for MOO1, but hopefully that should give some insight as to the rationale for doing so.

[DaveV]

Are you going to play with random events off? Events can really hose you over, or make the game really easy. There's also a bug when one of the space monsters attacks Orion after you capture it. The Guardian reappears instead of the monster, and whether you beat it or not, the monster trashes the planet.

[vmxa1]

I have never heard of that bug. I do think that evens are too arbitrary to use, but then I never cared for them in any game.

[Bam-Bam_RB]

I am not so sure that events are clearly unbalancing. Over the course of a game, or several games, the events tend to even out. One game you might get a rich planet out of nothing, the next you lose all of your research into that next key missile tech.

That being said, we will have to look at how inclusion of all the random events works out over time. But for now, they are in.

[vmxa1]

That is sensible, but I must say I see very little positive events after I become the number one race in the game at SP.

Even if they do even out over time, you can have serious problems if some of the bad ones hit you very early. Say you HW goes radiation or has a big quake. That has a more profound effect than one that comes much later.

[canimoo2]

you can't disable random events on MOO1 . . .

without a cheat that is

edit - added disclaimer

[vmxa1]

Alt EVENTS turns it off. It is in the manual. I don't call it a cheat any more than disable of cultural links in civ3. It is that after 10 years, I just don't want to see them anymore.

Moo2 made them selectable at map gen time as is common in modern games.

[Zed-F]

We might choose to disable events for specific games, but I doubt we would choose to do so on a regular basis. That would likely be left up to the discretion of the scenario sponsor. Either way, it would have to be the same for everyone who played the map.

[Zed-F]

Second tournament game here, with extra restrictions added for flavour:

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/realmsbeyond/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=6&t=66