Little diplomatic snags and other MOO1 problems.

[Elok]

I've figured out most of the tricks of the original Orion's gameplay mechanics (multi-ship vs. single-tough-ship weapons, etc.), but I can't quite understand why the AI continues harassing the same planets after agreeing to end a war. They seem to stop looking for new targets, and don't expand their agression, but they keep trying to invade the same planets even after we make peace. This would have to be a pretty huge bug if that was all it was, but the AI immediately declares war if I conquer one of its planets, so it doesn't appear to be expected that the races keep up their agression on a smaller scale, which wouldn't make sense anyway. What's the point of "peace" at all if the enemy keeps attacking?

[vmxa1]

Are you talking about troops being dropped on your planet? If so they were sent before peace was agreed to and cannot be stopped. I run into this all the time. I have lost planets that way after peace was signed.

If you are talking about something else such as ships being sent and not retreating, post a save and I will look at it. You need to rename the gam to sav in order to attach it.

[vmxa1]

Re: Little diplomatic snags and other MOO1 problems.

Originally posted by Elok
What's the point of "peace" at all if the enemy keeps attacking?

To me there is no point in making peace, unless you want to stop them attacking for a period or you want to sway them in the council vote to abstain.

I tend to stay at war nearly all the time, with just brief peace from time to time. I want to prevent the AI from 1) attacking weak races 2) building up enough of a fleet to hurt me.

This is done by having them waste ships attacking my missile bases. They spent resources on replacing lost ships and I spend nothing, but an occassional lost dither ship.

Once in a while I have to be careful if they manage to get a strong enough fleet and my missile tech is weak compared to their ships.

[Elok]

I don't just mean transports sent before peace was signed; the AI keeps attacking and trying to take over the planets it was attacking before "peace," even building new ships and sending multiple transports if necessary. They'll sometimes even change targets to a weaker nearby world, after I've fortified a planet too much for them to take it on. Does it have to do with the fact that they always hate me, maybe? On the diplomacy screen ratings, I mean; obviously they DO hate me a great deal. Would a non-agression pact solve this problem?

Speaking of frustrations, I take it there's no way to avoid building a planetary shield before missiles? I try to postpone planetary shield research as much as possible, but I'm inevitably forced to learn at least one, which of course makes it take about thirty turns to get a firm grip on conquered planets. Grr.

[vmxa1]

Last issue first as it is the easy one. Yes you are stuck once you have learned a shield tech. You will be forced to build the shield before you can build missiles.

This can be a problem as you noted, but I will prefer that over not having a shield.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Elok
I don't just mean transports sent before peace was signed; the AI keeps attacking and trying to take over the planets it was attacking before "peace," even building new ships and sending multiple transports if necessary. They'll sometimes even change targets to a weaker nearby world, after I've fortified a planet too much for them to take it on. Does it have to do with the fact that they always hate me, maybe? On the diplomacy screen ratings, I mean; obviously they DO hate me a great deal. Would a non-agression pact solve this problem?

Some races start with a predisposition to dislike some other races. Example is Alkari start out loathing the Mrrshans.

You have leader personality types to deal with such as Xenophobic, they have modifiers that combine to determine the odds of launcing an attack. If this test is passed, they look to see whom to attack. Then to see if they have a fleet near enough to do it in the near future. Then they choose a target. Preference is giving to planets that have the most factories, but it could be that only one or two planets met the cirteria.

[Elok]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Last issue first as it is the easy one. Yes you are stuck once you have learned a shield tech. You will be forced to build the shield before you can build missiles.

This can be a problem as you noted, but I will prefer that over not having a shield.

Why? Shields can weaken bombardments, missile bases keep 'em from happening at all. You can build about ten missile bases in the same time it takes to build a shield. Bases take maintenance, true, but I'd rather have that and not have to bother with protecting planets. And in some cases a weakened bombardment would be a bad thing; I'd rather an enemy destroy the colony entirely than weaken it enough to take it with troops.

[vmxa1]

Well I don't think those are my options. But the real thing to me is that at times I will not be able to defeat the attackers befoe they reach my planet. In that case they wil drop bombs. If I have a shield I can keep hitting them with missiles and defeat them before they take the planet.

So in a case where they can bust my shields and take over, I am screwed. In a case where I can defeat them before they get to the planet, I don't need shields. It is the oter case I care about. When they get to the planet to drop bombs.

It is only in contested and newly founded planets that I have to be concerned about not being able to get missiles up before they arrive, due to building the shield. This is where my fleet has to do the job or I have to buy the AI off. Well I guess I could just lose the planet.

The rest of the time I should have the required number of bases anyway, if not it is my fault. In the case mentioned above I would use cash to speed the shields up.

[Elok]

I've only played at average difficulty so far, so I don't know how much they use bombers at the higher levels; is it more often than at lower levels? In my experience, at least, even a single missile base will scare away a whole fleet of invaders, except for "bomber" types equipped with biological weapons and the like, who are usually present in pitifully small numbers and can be wiped out by 3-4 missile bases. With the exception of those frigging Klackons, of course...

[vmxa1]

I play at impossible and have not played at avg in years, but I am sure it is about the same. The thing is at hard and impossible you cannot build ships as fast as the AI for some time. This means you can't fight straight up.

The way you prevent them from bailing out or trick them into fighting your bases is with a dither ship. I make a small ship with a 5 shot missile and the best engine. Any space left goes firsts to armor, then movement and them ecm/shield and finally specials.

Now they will tend to try to kill that ship. I will paste them with bases and get them (usually) to back up once they get in range of my ships missiles. They back up till they are out of range and then come back. Rinse and repeat till either all ships are destroyed or you run out of missiles or the ship is destroyed.

I retreat the ship if I can before it is whacked or once it is out of missiles. This works great in most cases until their ships can move 3 squares at once. This is not a problem as by then you can use your ships to fight.

[vmxa1]

The biggest concern, other than them showing up with a fleet that cannot be surpressed, is they will have death spores and you have no antidote. The AI will almost always have either bombs or bio weapons.

I tend to let a planet slowly build up to 20 bases, unless it is going to be out of reach of the AI. I want to get to 10 fairly soon and then ease up to 20 as needed. The stronger the planet the slower I can go, as I can probably crank bases out quickly in a pinch there.

The AI will show up with large numbers very soon at impossible and it will be hard to surpress them. The game can be a bugger if you do not get a decent missile when you need it.

The game progress in stages and you will soon need more than one design for missile ships as their fleets will have maybe 4 to 6 stacks. I want one design for the first 2 or 3 stacks and 1 more each stack after that. Only use one ship of each type at that planet. I will only build beam ships in the beginning if it is the only way to hold a planet before it can get bases.

Resources spend on large ships is a waste until you get HEF or there abouts.

I have had a few hairy games where the AI shows up with 5 stacks, maybe 1 of small, 2 or 3 large and 1 or more huge. The numbers can be in the 10's of thounsands. I will face them with MB (40 or more) and a fleet or several designs of large with total numbers of 10-15 each. This battle is not always winnable. Depends on many things, armor, guns and missiles. If I have HEF and autoblasters or gausscannons with good armor and scatter pack VII, I may be able to win. Or at least drive them off.

[Elok]

I'm working my way up the scale slowly but surely; I just got to the point where "easy" difficulty level was too boring to tolerate, and average is something of a challenge. I've just won, or just-about-won, my first "average" game as the Psilons. I've reached that annoying stage where I control almost but not quite two thirds of the population and have to either go through the bother of taking over and terraforming enough planets to win a majority, then wait for the vote, or else methodically exterminate the other races. Either choice is pretty tedious. This game would be a lot more fun if there was a score system to give the endgame some purpose...

[vmxa1]

True, but I like to milk them to the last planet. I just finsihed a shocker for me. I was just starting to take off and grab planets and the vote can and I won the vote? Three races voted for me, that is very rare in my games. They must have been mad at the other guy. I hated that and refused the vote.

[vmxa1]

FYI:

AI production rates per level

-20% at Simple
-10% at Easy
0 at Avg
+25% at Hard
+50% at Impossible

So you can expect to see the AI start to do much better as you move up at building ships. The trade income is not affected by this bonus.

[vmxa1]

Expansion rate is a colony ships is available and a suitable planet exist in fuel range.
Base 10 is multiplied by:

1 - Simple
2 - Easy
3 - Avg
4 - Hard
5 - Impossible

So you see they will expand faster as you move and it will be easier as they will have better production.