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  • #16
    Those four values are the weapon damages. Now, I'll be honest, and admit that, until you posted that MOO3 Senate link, I hadn't thought much about the second pair. You'll be aware that the limited documentation covering peoples' investigations into this (that come with the OCL package) suggest these might be legacy values from some testing phase.

    However, that idea that the second pair represents damage values as used in strategic combat makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, the Senate site just dumps the raw numbers into a table, and I couldn't track down any provenance on this idea.

    But if it's true, then the four values represent the minimum and maximum weapon damage for tactical and strategic combat. That's why the NRD weapons (like Mass Drivers and missiles) have the same value twice, but weapons which dissipate have different values.

    It would make some sense to have a different table of values for strategic combat, if that were handled by a different process from tactical combat. In a sense, MOO2 has two combat engines - one which we see, if tactical combat is on, and our ships are involved, and another, which we never see, since it's only used for AI vs AI battles, and our own in a game with tactical combat switched off.

    Most of the differences between the tactical and strategic values represent a weakening of high tech beams. In particular, Mauler and Death Ray are crippled, and Disruptor is halved. It's entirely possible that during testing, these weapons were found to have a disproportionate impact (ahem) on strategic combat, and had to be toned down for balance reasons. Note also that Black Hole Generator does 100 damage (in strategic mode) according to these values. Perhaps the strategic combat process ignores its usual effect, for simplicity's sake, and treats it as a (very powerful) weapon.

    As to the tactical combat values for Interceptors, I had assumed these to be the numbers used if you actually deployed them before researching Lasers - without a value here, they would do ZERO damage if you had no 'best beam weapon allowing the point-defence mod'. However, a quick test (with a horribly uber race) demonstrates 'unarmed' interceptors do 5 damage per hit, which is the same as they achieve with Lasers. So now I'm a lot more confused about that than I used to be. I suppose I'm a bit less wrong, though...

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    • #17
      Is this worth a new thread, or does someone know what's up here, or am I being very stupid somewhere?

      Interceptor damage, with beam tech:

      No beams: 5 points
      Lasers: 5 points
      Fusions: 7 points
      Mass Drivers: 6 points

      Only Mass Driver looks 'right'. Any ideas? My MOO2 has been OCL'd so often it might have forgotten what the real values are, but the restore file I imported definitely lists the default weapon damages. Help?

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      • #18
        The numbers are correct imho.

        I tested it too...

        No Pd-Beam: 5
        Laser: 5
        Mass Driver: 6
        Fusion: 7
        Phasor: 21
        Particle: 31

        There are further mistakes in the manual....

        (So i dont understand the interceptor numbers at all.)

        BTW. I've modified the 2nd pair...but i havent seen any changes in strategical combat.
        "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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        • #19
          It seems to be adding 1 point to the (point-blank) damage done by all the dissipating beams. Note that it doesn't USE point-defence beams on fighters. It uses normal mounts, but can only choose from those beams which have a PD mount option. If you hacked Death Ray to offer a PD mount, Interceptors should do 100 damage each. My money is on them doing 101.

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          • #20
            Okies, I thought so too....

            But what the hell are these numbers here:

            "Interceptor"6, 15, 1, 4
            "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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            • #21
              The "6, 15" should be the minimum and maximum damage done by Interceptors in tactical combat when you have no beam weapon technologies. The "1, 4" should be the minimum and maximum damage done by Interceptors in strategic combat. Since strategic combat damage values are also listed for Bombers and Heavy Fighters, I suspect that the strategic combat process doesn't take your beam weapon or bomb technology into account when resolving a battle.

              However, it seems clear that the tactical combat process ignores these values anyway - Interceptors use their Laser damage value whether you have researched Lasers or not. And why there should be different minima and maxima I don't know - fighters always shoot at point-blank range, so the minimum values (used as the value that the weapon deals when hitting a target at its maximum range) would never apply.

              I suspect that these tactical combat values are a legacy, and the tactical combat process is now hardcoded to assume at least Laser tech when determining fighter damage. I'm going to have to start a new game with tactical combat off, to experiment on the strategic combat values - cranking them up a few hundred points should be sufficient...

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              • #22
                "I suspect that these tactical combat values are a legacy, and the tactical combat process is now hardcoded to assume at least Laser tech when determining fighter damage."

                Okies. Just legacy. Probably.

                "And why there should be different minima and maxima I don't know - fighters always shoot at point-blank range, so the minimum values (used as the value that the weapon deals when hitting a target at its maximum range) would never apply."

                IMO minimum values have nothing to do with the dissipation.

                Look at the thread:
                How Beam Dissipation Works Admiral Sparky

                His analysis is correct.

                IMHO minimum damage has sth to do with the "chance to hit". And the chance to hit is not always 1 for fighters.
                "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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                • #23
                  How would I make the special trait on ships that doubles the space say...quadruple it? That's the only change I want . OR make it so all options add 0 to the weight. Cause I did that with advances and such, all the tech picks for races take 0 points ^_^.

                  - Tue -

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                  • #24
                    I think the AI has enough problems now without doing those things. The human will do better with them than the AI and it can't win now.

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                    • #25
                      I believe strategic damage is bombardment, though I'm not sure about that.

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                      • #26
                        Pwease help me, I've pretty much played the game to death, this is my last joy :P.

                        - Tue -

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                        • #27
                          first u have to extract like flenser explained above.
                          then u get this file here:
                          ftp://ftp.sff.net/pub/people/zoetrop...L/original.rul
                          Space on ships is 2nd column under [SHIPS]
                          Space and price of mods u can obviously change under [MODS].

                          "I've pretty much played the game to death"

                          try to play multiplayer on kali. try to beat some veterans there. if u have already done that u may be right with ur statement.
                          "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TheUltimateEnd
                            Pwease help me, I've pretty much played the game to death, this is my last joy :P.

                            - Tue -
                            just use Corion2 to make whatever ships/races you want. You can put all mods on any weapon,(env and AF are nice),put as many weapons as you like, put all specials on a ship(dont click on the specials thing in tactical combat or it crashes, but its otherwise ok),etc.

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                            • #29
                              Bah thats so slow...oh well. I'll just wait till somebody makes a mod that does it or something, becuase using corion over and over makes my brain want to explode.

                              - Tue -

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                              • #30
                                you can update all ships to a certain design if you want.

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