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**Stormhound** · May 24, 2003, 12:38

The limit on the number of Task Forces is arbitrary, but also an unfortunate consequence of the minimal system requirements. Since combat has to run smoothly even on a low-end machine, the numbers got hacked way down (in an early design discussion, we were batting around numbers like 1000 ships per side!). Here's what you should do:

Pick your 8-9 largest/best non-Transport Task Forces. Pick your 1-2 best Transport Task Forces (the idea is to end up with a total of 10). Send ALL other TFs away from the system (to whichever system of yours has the shortest transit time). I personally recommend two each of Carrier, Indirect Fire, Long Range and Short Range, though you can adjust to taste. Definitely have at least one Carrier TF, though.

This should allow you to bring the maximum number of ships to bear, and eliminate the problem of the computer picking 10 TF's instead of you. You now ought to be able to attack and invade successfully. If, after invading, you find that two Transport TFs vastly overwhelms the enemy defense, you can cut back to one and bring in an extra combat TF.

If one of your combat TFs gets hammered, you can rotate it out and bring in a fresh one from the group you sent to the nearby star. I use this tactic to assault the Orion homeworld, so I can assure you it works quite nicely IF your tech is good enough compared to the other guy. If it isn't, well, you're in for a rough ride.

If you need any clarification, just let me know, but this should help you out. The trick is to not let the computer do the choosing for you if you can help it.

**Stormhound** · May 24, 2003, 12:40

Oh, and that's also why I modded my files to allow larger TFs. I have a 1.7Ghz machine, so performance is rather less a problem for me.

**Vince278** · May 25, 2003, 01:27

How large can you mod a TF before it becomes a problem? (I have a P3, 2Ghz, 512Mb, GeForce2 Ultra)

**Brazuca** · May 25, 2003, 08:41

with this computer....any size...i had a P3 450 hz 128 mb and never had problens with TF sizes, if i remenber well i could put in combat a maximun of 10 fleets of 18 ships each

**Stormhound** · May 25, 2003, 09:07

Vince,

I modded to allow Armadas to be up to 50 ships. That's probably too high, as there can be a lot of choking and sputtering when there are 500 ships on my side and 200-300 on the other, but I still like big fleets. I imagine you could do 25-30 and still be okay, though that's a guess. With a really high-end machine, 50 might work (it's all the weapons fire that really drags it down).

**ChristopherC** · May 25, 2003, 22:26

Many thanks once again for your helpful suggestions, Stormhound. I dont know what I would do without you as the manual is hardly of much help!

Incidentally, I only have a PIII type processor and performance time 760 plus turns into the game is causing me to have a book to hand while I wait out the turn! At some point, I guess I had better upgrade! Never thought I would have to do that for this game but I did choose, and do like, to disport myself in BIG galaxies! I like to have a bit of expansion tucked into my belt before I meet up with my rivals.

Anyway, I worked out my own partial solution on combat odds. Thanks to your telling me, Stormhound, that the 'picket ship' you need for a larger formation is actually one built for a 'reconnaissance' mission - it might have been a little less confusing if the 'mission' designation had been the same as the ship 'station' designation - I have finally been able to make 'waves' and 'packs' of ships, more numerous, that is, than the flotillas to which I had been arbitrarily coralled by the MOO3 rules, and my odds have dramatically increased. I am between fights gradually reorganising my ships into larger formations and it is working though I am still having problems working out how to assault a well-defended planetary defence with minimum casualties on my side. I am hoping that developing 'Behemoth' will help.

Oh, before I forget. Say, I lose a spaceplane or two from my carriers. Do they get replaced in the next turn? There wouldnt be much point in building carriers otherwise.

I may say here that for all its deficiencies, well-aired in these pages, the game is absorbing. Worth waiting for. I like all the infrastructural nuances to planet development and I have just got the hang of designing ships, including carriers. Yippee! The diplomatic AI is still, pretty poor, I think. You ought to be able to make at least one dependable ally out there, at least for a while. But I havent met the race yet which didnt want to annihilate humanity in short order. Therefore, all these bonus points for diplomacy, through leaders and institutions and technologies and whatnot, seem to me to be utterly useless. Or perhaps I just dont have the sort of face that an insectoid or crystalline species tends to trust?

Anyway, I am beginning to hope (fingers crossed) that a patch or two really will finally make this a classic game. I do wish they could do something about giving better definition to the ships during battles but I guess that might be a pretty major job?

Live long and prosper.

**Vince278** · May 25, 2003, 23:22

Originally posted by Stormhound
Vince,

I modded to allow Armadas to be up to 50 ships. That's probably too high, as there can be a lot of choking and sputtering when there are 500 ships on my side and 200-300 on the other, but I still like big fleets. I imagine you could do 25-30 and still be okay, though that's a guess. With a really high-end machine, 50 might work (it's all the weapons fire that really drags it down).

A little bit of slowing down may be a good thing. It will allow me more time to issue orders or just enjoy the show. I thought to experiment with this but instead I'll wait for the patch and try playing the game the way it is (hopefully

) meant to be played. As a rule I greatly dislike modding but this is a game that just cries out for it.

**Stormhound** · May 26, 2003, 13:52

Christopher:

It slows down on faster computers too...I've taken to playing in small-medium galaxies, though I vastly prefer huge ones.

You get your fighters back. Interesting side note: in LONG battles, you can actually get more than one wave of fighters out of your carriers. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Diplomacy is tough, and the AI takes a disliking to people pretty quickly (especially for certain race combinations). It's the price of success.

The ships look a lot better if you zoom in (the + key).

Vince:

The only thing that gets slowed down is the display (not the resolution!)...which means that before very long the battle becomes uncontrollable. I've had the VICTORY screen come up while a couple of enemy TFs were still showing.

**Vince278** · May 26, 2003, 22:20

I prefer huge galaxies as well. I have also seen multiple fighter waves (they seem to have a preset "refuel" time).

**statusperfect** · May 27, 2003, 15:58

Originally posted by Vince278
I prefer huge galaxies as well. I have also seen multiple fighter waves (they seem to have a preset "refuel" time).

they have...

there seems to be no upper level of the amount of fighters in a battle

cheers

**ChristopherC** · May 28, 2003, 15:03

Many thanks, as always, 'Stormhound', you are a one-man MOO3 manual by yourself! Infogrames should pay you to answer these questions! Er... I hope you wont ask me to pay for your technical expertise?

Thanks for confirming that attrition of fighters wont mean me having after a number of turns, this great big empty, useless hulk of a carrier. I have given up carrier-building for a while, though. I like the idea of building carriers but my planes are at the moment buzzing around aimlessly while my 'big guns' take out the enemy fleets! I personally cant see the use of space-planes in this game, so far. Anyone find them useful?

I must admit I had never thought of zooming in on the battles, Stormhound! Thanks for drawing that to my attention. Must try it. I guess here it is a case of RTM!

The diplomacy algorithms are, I say for the thousandth time, crap! In real life, as, for instance, between the U.S. and the UK you can have firm allies, whose aims may become divergent at some point but who will band together for the common good against a common enemy, staying wedded for a long time. You wont get that in MOO3! No sirreee! Just open or latent hostility! Therefore, IMHO, without a good patch to do something about it, all the diplomatic paraphernalia in MOO3 are utterly useless. How can I trust the perfidious Klacken with a joint research program if I know that every twenty turns they will declare war on me! That isnt a case for subtle diplomacy on my part. It is just a question of facing crass bullying.

It wouldnt be a bad idea to have a scenario editor for MOO3. Particularly where diplomacy is concerned, you could edit for diplomatically dependable allies, or otherwise, if you preferred, as in the editor provided by 'Alpha Centauri' and 'Alien Crossfire' (whose amalgam is still, incidentally, IMHO, the best space game ever. Though even that needed several patches before it became trully great!).

I am soooo glad to hear that even with powerful machines the game slows down. That makes me feel happier with my machine specs. I think most of us prefer large galaxies for the same reasons; long, massive campaigns and the chance to build up your empire before the aliens try to take you to the galactic cleaners!

Another nagging thing I will mention here. You can save a game but you cant save the 'sitreps' for that game, far as I can see. So when I save a game, because you need at least two hours sleep before you get up to work, well I do, I usually save it with all the adjustments ready for the next turn. That ought to be addressed in a patch.

I will also mention here that having reached 775 in a game where I specified 'short starlines' I have had an 'oh-ph', moment. I dont like 'oh-oh' moments. Who does? I have been hitherto easily able to defend my empire because there have only been these two 'chokepoints' to defend. Suddenly, this big, longggg starline has opened up from nowhere into the heart of my empire! Is that supposed to happen? Will there be more? Groan...

Geez, I am playing at the EASIEST level and everything is still a headache! The harder levels must be for battle-hardened geniuses!

Well, to all the geniuses out there, live long and prosper and thanks again for the INVALUABLE info, Stormhound!

**Vince278** · May 28, 2003, 20:24

Originally posted by ChristopherC
Another nagging thing I will mention here. You can save a game but you cant save the 'sitreps' for that game, far as I can see. So when I save a game, because you need at least two hours sleep before you get up to work, well I do, I usually save it with all the adjustments ready for the next turn. That ought to be addressed in a patch.

Actually, this is being addressed in the upcoming code patch. I'm surprised you haven't read this in one of the threads yet.

Also, I believe you are being a little unfair to stormhound. We are all trying to give each other the benefit of our experiences. That way, as a collective whole, we can make more sense out of a game that we care enough about to still post on this forum.
I greatly dislike people who pontificate or think they are smarter or better than the rest of us as much as you do but I don't get that feeling from him. You, on the other hand, have been going after him like an attack dog. Is there perhaps some history between you two?

Enjoy the game!

**Stormhound** · May 28, 2003, 20:55

Funny, *I* don't feel that way about it. I have a way of putting people who're after me personally on ignore. Chris is after the game...and rightly enough so, as there are certainly problems which ought to be addressed. I don't always agree with everyone which ones those are, but then I don't have to.

**pchang** · May 29, 2003, 18:55

history

You probably don't know that Stormhound used to be employed by the makers of Moo3. However, he was unceremoniously let go a little over a year ago. This is why he knows so much about how the game really works. This is why he is vastly superior to the manual.

Now that the game is out, he is free to disclose all the undisclosable details from before. But perhaps, there are some things which man was just not meant to know.

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