What's the drill with patches

[Island Dog]

It's unfortunate you feel this way, but I can assure you Stardock Central is not spyware. Just because you don't want to install it doesn't make it so.

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Hydro
I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with GalCiv2.

I've no way of know whether I'm happy with GalCiv2 or not. I've not yet installed it.

Originally posted by Hydro
Just out of curriousity, yhy do you call Stardock Central spyware? It does nothing more than any software that checks for updates, which includes Windows, anti-virus protection programs, and firewalls.

Even assuming that's all it did, that's spyware. Admittedly my tolerance for spyware is much lower than most peoples. But I avidly avoid or disable such "features" in all my software. It's certainly not the worst type of spyware, but spyware it is: such features are unwanted residents on my computer and I prefer not to have them hanging around sucking up my resources. Reputable companies always have alternate mechanisms for downloading updates. Apparently, Stardock does not.

I probably should have payed more attention to warnings about restrictive access to patches and copy protection schemes. But the company's website strives hard to convey the erroneous impression that it has no copy protection or restrictions on access to patches. I would have preferred to know the catches and caveats they seem intent on omitting before I made the purchase, however.

Originally posted by Solver
No offense, RobRoy, but is this anything more than a knee jerk reaction? Have you investigated how Stardock Central works, or seen it perform strange actions?

None taken. And it absolutely IS a knee-jerk reaction!

And the more they insist that an extraneous piece of software is necessary, the more acute that reaction will be!!

Why ARE they so adamant about putting onto my systems this harmless piece of software that doesn't do anything wrong or unusual or out of the ordinary?

Things are a bit backwards here. I have to prove something about an extraneous piece of software that I don't want to install?! No. They would need to assure me, in extensive detail, that this extraneous piece of software is useful, necessary, or otherwise desirable.

I have no intention of putting this particular spyware on my system in the hopes that it won't do anything strange. On the off chance that Stardock would care to send me detailed specs on the program I'd consider reviewing them to satisfy myself that their software is safe. But why would they do that and why should I take the time?

Originally posted by Island Dog
It's unfortunate you feel this way, but I can assure you Stardock Central is not spyware. Just because you don't want to install it doesn't make it so.

Unfortunately your assurances don't jibe with what I have read in this thread, what Stardock has told me and what I've seen on their website.

Their practices may not be objectionable to many people, but they are to me. I assume the company will be refunding my purchase, though, and enough said.

[Solver]

Sorry, but I find your argumentation to be flawed. I'm not a big fan of extra programs myself. But any concerns that you have about the program doing anything strange can be applied to anything - including the patch itself. Why don't you get suspicious about the patch, then, and don't want detailed specifications on it? Or the game itself, for that matter?

For the record, I can, as I said before, find patches to be available from gaming sites without Stardock Central. Example, for the latest GalCiv2 patch:

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/8697/Galactic+Civilizations+II:+Dread+Lords+v1.40+Patch

That installs pretty much like any regular patch does. So yes, you can patch the game without using Stardock Central.

[Gamecube64]

If I am correct, the reason Central is used rather than an in-game feature is because it also serves as the patching system for all of their other games, as well as how digital copies for those who have ordered online or lost CDs are downloaded. (correct?)

[Solver]

That's one of the reasons, I would assume. Another is, I guess, is that such programs are simpler to use for regular users that aren't very computer-literate.

[Island Dog]

Unfortunately your assurances don't jibe with what I have read in this thread, what Stardock has told me and what I've seen on their website.

Nowhere here, or on that website does anything indicate spyware. I have already given you the link to the latest patch as other here as well.

Here is plenty of information on Stardock Central.

http://www.stardock.com/products/sdcentral/

It's not only used for games, but other applications we produce such as WindowBlinds, Object Desktop, etc.

[LotC]

Wow, if you're slagging off Stardock I would suggest never buying another game from any company. They are simply the best there is out there.

Now it's time for a confession. I generally don't buy games or any software for that matter. That's not to say I don't have a lot of them. However, there are a very few companies that I refuse to "freely acquire" games from: Blizzard, Firaxis, the company that makes Supreme Ruler 2010 (forget the name offhand), and Stardock. My cousin offered me GC2 for free but I refused and told him he should buy it. Then I bought it.

As far as Stardock Central, the download manager, I can tell you that it is very convenient when you have several of their releases. I have 3: Space Rangers 2, GC and GC2 (both with expansions). Once you have registered the serials for the games reinstalls are easy, even if you uninstall the client and damage/lose the CD. Just go to the site,log in, look up the serial, reinstall SD Central, input the serials, and download and install the game(s). If you forget your login you only need your email address.

As for you assertion that SD Central is spyware, I can only assume that you have a whole whack of it plus viruses to boot on your PC, since it sounds like you would refuse to use that nasty little ActiveX control that Microsoft forces you to use called Windows Update.

[Hydro]

One of my fears is with the must-have-CD copy protection a system is that eventually the CDs will wear out, and then you’re stuck (although some cracks exist). That is the primary advantage of Stardock’s registration and patch system – you don’t need a CD to play the game, and if your copy EVER goes south you’re covered since you can freely download it again from their site. No other game company I am aware of can offer that extraordinary service.

On balance I think Stardock is on the right track with terrific games, outstanding customer support, and above-and-beyond service. That more than anything speaks to their integrity.

RR – I can understand your fear of spyware (which is very valid) but think that in this instance you may be overreacting. If your concern results in not playing GalCiv2 then that is a shame since you’ll miss out on a first-rate game. You may want to try Solver’s link, though, before you pitch GalCiv2.

Hydro

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Solver
Sorry, but I find your argumentation to be flawed. I'm not a big fan of extra programs myself. But any concerns that you have about the program doing anything strange can be applied to anything - including the patch itself. Why don't you get suspicious about the patch, then, and don't want detailed specifications on it? Or the game itself, for that matter?

Oh, trust me, my paranoia indeed extends that far. But accepting the risk for one program, which has no obvious monitoring component to it and which I do want, is hardly analogous to accepting the risk for a program I do not want which has a known monitoring component.

Originally posted by Solver
For the record, I can, as I said before, find patches to be available from gaming sites without Stardock Central. Example, for the latest GalCiv2 patch:

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x/8697/Galactic+Civilizations+II:+Dread+Lords+v1.40+Patch

That installs pretty much like any regular patch does. So yes, you can patch the game without using Stardock Central.

That is the type of thing I'm looking for, but I thought the latest patch was Dark Avatar 1.5? Am I wrong? I can't find that on this site, or the other one you mentioned.

Originally posted by Island Dog
Nowhere here, or on that website does anything indicate spyware.

Perhaps we are defining our terms differently.

Originally posted by Island Dog
I have already given you the link to the latest patch as other here as well.

Unfortunately the links you've provided will not allow me to download a patch, though they will direct me to Stardock Central.

Originally posted by LoTC
As for you assertion that SD Central is spyware, I can only assume that you have a whole whack of it plus viruses to boot on your PC, since it sounds like you would refuse to use that nasty little ActiveX control that Microsoft forces you to use called Windows Update.

Thank you for your concern, but you are illustrating the fallacy of most assumptions. Yes, Microsoft's irritating updaters fall into this category. But, if you'll forgive me for being repetitious, most reputable companies offer alternative methods for people whose spyware tolerance is particularly low. Stardock, apparently, does not.

Originally posted by Island Dog
...RR – I can understand your fear of spyware (which is very valid) but think that in this instance you may be overreacting. If your concern results in not playing GalCiv2 then that is a shame since you’ll miss out on a first-rate game. You may want to try Solver’s link, though, before you pitch GalCiv2.

Overreacting? Probably....I'd still prefer to keep and play the game. But I need to be assured the ability to download the latest patches before I throw my time away after my money. I think the gold edition actually has the latest 1.5 patch. But nothing anybody has been able to point to has had a patch that recent available for download and Stardock indicates such is not available without SDC.

I don't particularly like CD-key systems, either, so I commend companies that are trying alternative methods. But I see something that is trivially easy to improve here and am having trouble understanding why boosters are so quick to defend. Paradox's method, for example, is similar to Stardock's, but is far less intrusive. And they provide paranoids with an alternative when requested (with reasonable proof of purchase).

[Island Dog]

Unfortunately the links you've provided will not allow me to download a patch, though they will direct me to Stardock Central.

The link I provided under "retail update" will download the 1.4 patch.

But, if you'll forgive me for being repetitious, most reputable companies offer alternative methods for people whose spyware tolerance is particularly low. Stardock, apparently, does not.

Stardock Central is not spyware, so tolerance has nothing to do with it.

[Solver]

That is the type of thing I'm looking for, but I thought the latest patch was Dark Avatar 1.5? Am I wrong? I can't find that on this site, or the other one you mentioned.

1.4 is the latest patch. Dark Avatar is an expansion, which you need to buy separately - if you have Dark Avatar, the game is considered to be brought up to version 1.5, but there's no patch per se. So if you only buy GC2 without DA, 1.4 is the latest.

[Hydro]

Stardock has a very minor patch update circa 5/10/07. It updated my version from 159.078 to 1.59.081. The Big Patch (1.60x) is in the second beta test (I think), and I don’t think there is a set release date yet. Brad and company are pretty picky that the patches work correctly, which is a level of quality control that other game companies should emulate. Stardock games work and are not buggy. The game mechanics are continually refined and features are added (!!!) based on player feedback (as moderated by the developers, of course).

Hydro

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Solver
1.4 is the latest patch. Dark Avatar is an expansion, which you need to buy separately - if you have Dark Avatar, the game is considered to be brought up to version 1.5, but there's no patch per se. So if you only buy GC2 without DA, 1.4 is the latest.

The gold edition now being sold, supposedly, includes the Dark Avatar expansion. There is still a version for sale that does not include Dark Avatar. But there was no option to buy just the Dark Avatar expansion at the store I used. Is it possible that their patching practices haven't caught up with their marketing?

Originally posted by Hydro
Stardock has a very minor patch update circa 5/10/07. It updated my version from 159.078 to 1.59.081.

That's useful, thanks. Now if only I could find that somewhere.

Originally posted by Island Dog
The link I provided under "retail update" will download the 1.4 patch.

Again, it does not; at least not for me. Perhaps it does for you. However, Stardock customer service has also indicated that patches are not available without downloading Stardock Central. Please forgive me if I choose to believe what my own experience, and they, all tell me.

Originally posted by Island Dog
Stardock Central is not spyware, so tolerance has nothing to do with it.

Again, your definition is clearly different from mine.

It is.

While I'm sure it would be entertaining to repeat this conversation two or three more times or, better yet, engage in a lengthy semantic debate, I don't really see much value in it.

The software they want you to download seems to include automated updating and monitoring features that are commonly included in the definitions of spyware. If you choose not to accept such definitions, there is not much I can or should do about it.

However, I do accept such definitions. Moreover, their insistence that their customers HAVE to use this product, by itself, makes the product suspect and distasteful, IMHO.

[Solver]

The gold edition now being sold, supposedly, includes the Dark Avatar expansion. There is still a version for sale that does not include Dark Avatar. But there was no option to buy just the Dark Avatar expansion at the store I used. Is it possible that their patching practices haven't caught up with their marketing?

Dark Avatar can't be purchased in stores alone. Stardock is a fairly small company, and Dark Avatar wasn't going to sell enough copies to go on the shelves by itself. So you can buy the Gold Edition then.

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Solver
Dark Avatar can't be purchased in stores alone. Stardock is a fairly small company, and Dark Avatar wasn't going to sell enough copies to go on the shelves by itself. So you can buy the Gold Edition then.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The gold edition is the one I purchased. That is why I'm concerned about the unavailability of Dark Avatar patches.