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  • #1

    Military Outposts

    Am I the only one that laments the ability to create military outposts in sectors that have no planets that would otherwise be habitable?

    I know I could build a starbase in that sector, but that seems like such a waste, especially given the time and cost involved in constructor building and the limited number of 'freebie' starbases.

    Would it be unreasonable to expect the capability to do this could be placed somewhere in the tech tree, preferably in the early part?

    I know it seems like a blatant MOO rip off, but I think it was a valid concept and implementing it has merit.

    Maybe after a certain amount of terraforming technologies have become unlocked these outposts could progress to become more useful planets?

    Any thoughts?
    ..there are known ‘knowns’ There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. ~~Donald Rumsfeld
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  • #2
    Personally, I almost never used outposts in MoO II. They just didn't seem useful, since all they did was act as refuelling depots. On the other hand, I can see the use in placing a military starbase in a contested region of space... Which I hear you can do in GalCiv II (and you couldn't in MoO II, as starbases had to be built at colonies, and were really expensive).
    "For it must be noted, that men must either be caressed or else annihilated; they will revenge themselves for small injuries, but cannot do so for great ones; the injury therefore that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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    • #3
      The way I see it there's really no difference between a military outpost and a military starbase. There's really no difference, except that starbases are limited by logistics.

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      • #4
        they should be limited by logistics. building a viable military outpost in space is a very expensive undertaking.
        it should be one of, if not the most expensive & material consuming thing you can do militarily.
        as far as building them on inhospiable planets that should be as costly or even more so because then you are dealing with all sorts of other problems than those of building in space.
        though i got to admit i like the idea of the moo refuling depot. that should be viable. & if you get enough terraforming tech then you should be able to send a colony ship there.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mike2h
          they should be limited by logistics. building a viable military outpost in space is a very expensive undertaking.
          it should be one of, if not the most expensive & material consuming thing you can do militarily.
          as far as building them on inhospiable planets that should be as costly or even more so because then you are dealing with all sorts of other problems than those of building in space.
          though i got to admit i like the idea of the moo refuling depot. that should be viable. & if you get enough terraforming tech then you should be able to send a colony ship there.
          I never intended to imply that the military outpost should be able to confidently repel enemy fleets or invasions. I never even intended to imply that they should have the ability to ( initially ) defend themselves without help from an orbiting spacecraft.

          All I'm lobbying for is the ability to establish some form of presense in sectors of space with otherwise inhospitable planets without incurring the costs required to build an entire starbase.

          It doesn't need to consist of anything more than a handful of pressure domes.

          If it comes in the form of a refueling station I would be just as happy, although that cuts into an ability currently reserved for starbases.

          Maybe even just a planetary sensor array could be set up on one of these PQ zero planets that is serviced by the military outpost. With some future tech that allows them to unlock 1 or 2 tiles from terraforming an underground city or humongous planetary surface dome.

          Most moons and planets like Pluto probably qualify as PQ zero astral bodies. But I don't doubt it would be possible to set up some pressure domes there once our technology becomes a bit more advanced.

          Heck, you could add disasters that destroy those outposts regularly as one of the many possible events that occur during gameplay to emphasize the dangers involved in such undertakings.

          It just seems it would be a fun addition that might also add another strategic element.
          ..there are known ‘knowns’ There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. ~~Donald Rumsfeld

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          • #6
            Could you please explain to me how this is different from a starbase? A constructor takes one turn to complete on a reasonably productive planet, there's really no need to reduce that cost. Is one less starbase at home that much of a cost that you'd feel the need to spend time implementing this feature?

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            • #7
              "A couple pressure domes" sounds a lot less complicated to build than a starbase, but a refuelling station would have to be pretty complex.

              On the other hand, couldn't you make sensor ships and park them where you want, rather than making a starbase for that?
              "For it must be noted, that men must either be caressed or else annihilated; they will revenge themselves for small injuries, but cannot do so for great ones; the injury therefore that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gufnork
                Could you please explain to me how this is different from a starbase? A constructor takes one turn to complete on a reasonably productive planet, there's really no need to reduce that cost. Is one less starbase at home that much of a cost that you'd feel the need to spend time implementing this feature?
                It should come early in the tech tree, like maybe 3 or 4 turns of research. Although maybe it should be something you can build right away.

                At that point in the game ( very begining ) there are no planets with a constructor build time of one turn. At least I have never started a game with a planet like that.

                The cost of creating multiple starbases increases beyond the need to throw them away in the sectors I'm speaking of. Sure if it's a hotly contested sector the starbase is priceless, but if it's a 'backdoor' sector to your empire that may or may not see an enemy fleet moving through it, then to establish a full blown starbase is too expensive.

                As for constructing sensor ships... that is basically what I'm using now as a substitute, but the difference I'm proposing would make the military outpost a one time cost for initially building it, with a per turn cost that expires once you actually construct the outpost on planet.

                Sensor ships will continue to eat away at your bc per turn based on a percentage of the ships cost until that ship is destroyed or decommisioned.

                Military outposts would have early game usefulness that probably will diminish or become obsolete unless as a bonus the outpost 'might' become a permanent settlement with a tile or 2 workable based on unlocking advanced terraforming research.

                I'm not saying they should replace starbases, but I'm suggesting them as an affordable early game strategy that could prove interesting in the long run.
                ..there are known ‘knowns’ There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. ~~Donald Rumsfeld

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                • #9
                  I would think you would still need to pay maintenance on a sensor outpost, if you're going to have humans manning it. On the other hand, a fully automated sensor outpost may need repairs from time to time. And maybe it'd be easier to fool the automated one if nobody's checking the data from the sensors for weirdness.
                  "For it must be noted, that men must either be caressed or else annihilated; they will revenge themselves for small injuries, but cannot do so for great ones; the injury therefore that we do to a man must be such that we need not fear his vengeance." - Niccolo Machiavelli

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                  • #10
                    Would a big mothership do the same? Because it would seem more fun anf useful, especially with GalCiv2's logistics.
                    Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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