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Drank made this comment in another thread:
I agree 100% the system is too labor intensive, and given that it often pays handsomely to be bartering techs one at a time (the computer pays you more for selling each tech one at a time rather than offering the techs as a bunch!), this process eats up a lot of time.
My proposal: TECH AUCTIONS! ...well, auctions for anything, including ships, etc.
There's an interesting dynamic in the Monopoly game on my cell phone: you can auction properties. It's really kind of neat. So, put Reading Railroad up for auction and a clock starts. Once somebody bids, the clock starts again (it's like a 3 second clock, so this goes fast). It's an interesting mini-game AND you don't shop Reading Railroad around to each individual player.
Why can't we have that system in GalCiv2? Put a tech on the table, let the clock start, and see who puts in the highest bid? The obvious answer, of course, is you want to sell that same tech to as many civs as possible (which is quite different from selling a single property to a single winner). O.K. How about "delayed delivery" of the tech based on two things:
1) Your place in the bidding war.
2) A multiplied percentage of how much less a civ's bid was compared to the winning one (% x baseline + baseline of waiting based on your place in the bidding war). The winner, of course, gets the tech immediately. Maybe the baselines look like this:
1st Place: Immediate delivery
2nd Place: 5 turn delay
3rd Place: 7 turn delay
4th Place: 9 turn delay etc.
O.K. We have the baseline wait, but what if a civ bids just 1 b.c.? Should it still get the tech after 9 turns? No, that's when we compare that bid against the winning bid, generate a percentage difference (percent increase of 2nd to 1st place), multiply times the baseline wait number and add back the baseline wait.
For example, the winning bid was 500, but the second place civ bid 250 -- that's a 100% greater bid for the winner, so the second place baseline wait of 5 turns gets multiplied by 100% = 5. Add that back to the baseline. 5 + 5 = 10 turn wait.
For a crazy example (I propose a system below to avoid something this silly, but it's just to show the math). So what if a civ bids 1 b.c.? Assume there are only 4 bidders, so the 1 b.c. bid will come in last, with a baseline wait of 9 turns. The 500 b.c. bid is 499% greater than the 1 b.c. bid. So the 9 turn wait gets multiplied by 499% = 44.91, rounded up to 45. Add 45 to 9 = 54 turns before that civs gets its tech. Useless, in other words. You'd be forced to put in a decent bid to ensure you get the tech faster than you could reasearch or steal it yourself.
The 1 b.c. thing is just a crazy example. In reality, the minimum bid should be something reasonable, say 25 b.c. for Laser 3, and if you don't want to meet the minimum, you opt out of that auction.
Now, what if another civ starts a bid the next turn for the same tech? Well, if you already have been in on an auction for that tech, you cannot enter another auction for it. So if you suddenly realize that you need that tech faster than 54 turns, you'll need to research/steal it yourself. You've already paid the original seller of the tech, you can't enter a new auction, so your original bid got you nothing. Therefore, you would need to think carefully about making a stupid bid because you'd likely just be wasting money. Again, a minimum bid process would limit this issue in a sane way.
What are the benefits of such a system?
1. Instead of shopping a tech around 1 by 1 and using sliders to find the maximum each civ will pay (think of all the time this takes now!), you simply call up an auction, put your tech on the table, and all civs who lack that tech get invited to the auction at once. The bid war starts with the little clock counting down (which becomes more important when YOU are bidding rather than selling, of course). Within a few seconds of the automated bidding process, a roster of bids and civ places in the bidding wars gets put in front of you. Let's say your tech is Laser 3, the results are:
"1st Place: Civ #1 bids 100 b.c. Would get immediate delivery.
2nd Place: Civ #2 bids 50 b.c. Gets delivery in 10 turns.
3rd Place: Civ #3 bids 45 b.c. Gets delivery in 11 turns.
4th Place: Civ #4 bids 40 b.c. Gets delivery in 14 turns.
TOTAL BIDS: 235 b.c. Do you accept the results of this auction? Yes/No"
Done!
2. Another benefit is this is just fun, particularly when you are involved in placing the bid. I should mention that when YOU are bidding (at least in the Monopoly game on my cell phone), there are built in bid amounts. So if the computer bids 100b.c., you just click "Bid +5 (105 b.c.)", "Bid +10 (110 b.c.)", etc. all the way to Bid +100. Also, remember that bids should start at something reasonable, so you aren't manually typing in 1 b.c. to see if you get lucky. No, the computer says:
"Laser 3 is up for auction by Civ#1. The minimum bid is 50 b.c. Do you wish to bid this amount and join the auction? All sales and delivery dates are final! Yes/No"
3. Finally, I think this adds an interesting strategic element to the tech bartering process. Do you buy up a bunch of techs for immediate delivery, or do you get them more cheaply for later delivery? If a war is about to start, you'll want that Laser 3 ASAP, but so might other civs in the war, so a true bidding war could ensue. But if you're at peace, safely away from the war, maybe you put in a decent but rather cheap bid, getting delivery 15 turns later.
Originally posted by drank
Also, if you want to sell them several techs in a branch (Sensors, Sensors II, Sensors III), you'll get more money if you sell them in order....Just give me the money and let me get to the next turn already!
Also, if you want to sell them several techs in a branch (Sensors, Sensors II, Sensors III), you'll get more money if you sell them in order....Just give me the money and let me get to the next turn already!
My proposal: TECH AUCTIONS! ...well, auctions for anything, including ships, etc.
There's an interesting dynamic in the Monopoly game on my cell phone: you can auction properties. It's really kind of neat. So, put Reading Railroad up for auction and a clock starts. Once somebody bids, the clock starts again (it's like a 3 second clock, so this goes fast). It's an interesting mini-game AND you don't shop Reading Railroad around to each individual player.
Why can't we have that system in GalCiv2? Put a tech on the table, let the clock start, and see who puts in the highest bid? The obvious answer, of course, is you want to sell that same tech to as many civs as possible (which is quite different from selling a single property to a single winner). O.K. How about "delayed delivery" of the tech based on two things:
1) Your place in the bidding war.
2) A multiplied percentage of how much less a civ's bid was compared to the winning one (% x baseline + baseline of waiting based on your place in the bidding war). The winner, of course, gets the tech immediately. Maybe the baselines look like this:
1st Place: Immediate delivery
2nd Place: 5 turn delay
3rd Place: 7 turn delay
4th Place: 9 turn delay etc.
O.K. We have the baseline wait, but what if a civ bids just 1 b.c.? Should it still get the tech after 9 turns? No, that's when we compare that bid against the winning bid, generate a percentage difference (percent increase of 2nd to 1st place), multiply times the baseline wait number and add back the baseline wait.
For example, the winning bid was 500, but the second place civ bid 250 -- that's a 100% greater bid for the winner, so the second place baseline wait of 5 turns gets multiplied by 100% = 5. Add that back to the baseline. 5 + 5 = 10 turn wait.
For a crazy example (I propose a system below to avoid something this silly, but it's just to show the math). So what if a civ bids 1 b.c.? Assume there are only 4 bidders, so the 1 b.c. bid will come in last, with a baseline wait of 9 turns. The 500 b.c. bid is 499% greater than the 1 b.c. bid. So the 9 turn wait gets multiplied by 499% = 44.91, rounded up to 45. Add 45 to 9 = 54 turns before that civs gets its tech. Useless, in other words. You'd be forced to put in a decent bid to ensure you get the tech faster than you could reasearch or steal it yourself.
The 1 b.c. thing is just a crazy example. In reality, the minimum bid should be something reasonable, say 25 b.c. for Laser 3, and if you don't want to meet the minimum, you opt out of that auction.
Now, what if another civ starts a bid the next turn for the same tech? Well, if you already have been in on an auction for that tech, you cannot enter another auction for it. So if you suddenly realize that you need that tech faster than 54 turns, you'll need to research/steal it yourself. You've already paid the original seller of the tech, you can't enter a new auction, so your original bid got you nothing. Therefore, you would need to think carefully about making a stupid bid because you'd likely just be wasting money. Again, a minimum bid process would limit this issue in a sane way.
What are the benefits of such a system?
1. Instead of shopping a tech around 1 by 1 and using sliders to find the maximum each civ will pay (think of all the time this takes now!), you simply call up an auction, put your tech on the table, and all civs who lack that tech get invited to the auction at once. The bid war starts with the little clock counting down (which becomes more important when YOU are bidding rather than selling, of course). Within a few seconds of the automated bidding process, a roster of bids and civ places in the bidding wars gets put in front of you. Let's say your tech is Laser 3, the results are:
"1st Place: Civ #1 bids 100 b.c. Would get immediate delivery.
2nd Place: Civ #2 bids 50 b.c. Gets delivery in 10 turns.
3rd Place: Civ #3 bids 45 b.c. Gets delivery in 11 turns.
4th Place: Civ #4 bids 40 b.c. Gets delivery in 14 turns.
TOTAL BIDS: 235 b.c. Do you accept the results of this auction? Yes/No"
Done!
2. Another benefit is this is just fun, particularly when you are involved in placing the bid. I should mention that when YOU are bidding (at least in the Monopoly game on my cell phone), there are built in bid amounts. So if the computer bids 100b.c., you just click "Bid +5 (105 b.c.)", "Bid +10 (110 b.c.)", etc. all the way to Bid +100. Also, remember that bids should start at something reasonable, so you aren't manually typing in 1 b.c. to see if you get lucky. No, the computer says:
"Laser 3 is up for auction by Civ#1. The minimum bid is 50 b.c. Do you wish to bid this amount and join the auction? All sales and delivery dates are final! Yes/No"
3. Finally, I think this adds an interesting strategic element to the tech bartering process. Do you buy up a bunch of techs for immediate delivery, or do you get them more cheaply for later delivery? If a war is about to start, you'll want that Laser 3 ASAP, but so might other civs in the war, so a true bidding war could ensue. But if you're at peace, safely away from the war, maybe you put in a decent but rather cheap bid, getting delivery 15 turns later.
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