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  • Multiplayer isn't always the answer

    Galactic Civilizations is the only Windows game I've ever worked on that isn't multiplayer.

    The first Windows game I developed, Entrepreneur, had multiplayer. It included a built-in chat area and match-making. Stellar Frontier also had multiplayer -- up to 64 players on a persistent world. The Corporate Machine had multiplayer. The Political Machine had multiplayer.

    In short, I've worked on a lot of multiplayer games. Moreover, I play multiplayer games. As was pointed out on-line, I played Total Annihilation, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, and several other strategy games a great deal on-line in a "Ranked" capacity. I've tried out nearly every major strategy game from Master of Orion 2 to HOMM 3 to Civ 3:PTW/Civ 4 multiplayer.

    From this, I've concluded two things:

    1) Some strategy games really benefit from a multiplayer component. Multiplayer extends their "fun" lifespan.

    2) Some strategy games don't benefit from multiplayer and the sacrifices made for multiplayer lessened the overall experience.

    To people who don't develop games, multiplayer may seem like a simple checkbox feature. Indeed, many developers I've spoken to feel pressured to put multiplayer in because some reviewers will give the game a lower score if it lacks it despite the fact that for most strategy games, the percentage of players playing on-line is very low.

    But multiplayer brings sacrifices that many people may not be aware of. Galactic Civilizations II was developed so that multiplayer could be added later (i.e. it passes messages back and forth). But the gameplay was not. We were not willing to sacrifice the single-player experience for multiplayer.

    I'm going to give three reasons why multiplayer does not make sense in Galactic Civilizations as part of the base game.

    #1 It sacrifices single player features. Ask any game developer whether they be at Ensemble, Paradox, Firaxis, or Big Huge Games, most people play strategy games by themselves on a single computer. What % that is depends on the game. But on a TBS game, I would wager that greater than 95% of players never play a single game on-line even if the option is available -- that includes Civilization IV.

    But developing multiplayer is incredibly time-consuming and expensive. In our last game, The Political Machine, a full third of the budget was for multiplayer. The game was ideally suited for multiplayer, published by Ubi Soft it would sell a ton of copies. The game came out and sure enough, only a tiny percent of people played the game multiplayer. That tiny percent didn't justify the 33% budget dedicated to them.

    My favorite game of 2005 was Civilization IV. It has multiplayer in it that is as good if not better than any implementation in the history of turn-based games. But what was sacrificed in exchange? There's no campaign. There's no in-depth scenarios. No in-depth random events. You can only trade certain items and techs back and forth no matter what. Do you think this is a coincidence? No random civil wars based on certain criteria? No war-causing assasinations? No crusades? Not even once in a long while? I suspect that there were a lot of concepts and features that Civ IV would have had if it didn't have multiplayer.

    When we were making Galactic Civilizations II, we took a poll on multiplayer. Only a small percentage of GalCiv I players cared about it. We took additional polls since multiplayer advocates were so vocal. Same thing.

    So instead, Galactic Civilizations II got ship design and a campaign. I think most people would agree that we could have taken GalCiv I, slapped a 3D engine on it, given it multiplayer and been in good shape. But can anyone who's played the beta imagine the game without ship design? And when you play the campaign, I think you'll find that was worth it too.

    Moreover, players get a lot more single player experience. There are rare events that players may only see once in a great while but they're worth it -- a religions war that breaks empires in pieces. New republics formed from remnants of shattered civilizations. Civil wars. Precursor ships found on worlds. Powerful artifacts that slowly increase the power of a given civilization so that everyone has to team up on them. Terrorists. On and on. In multiplayer, this would all have to be turned off, but then again, if there had been multiplayer, whey develop any of this at all if it wasn't always going to be used?

    Similarly, there's diplomacy. Last night, I played as the galactic arms dealer. The Drengin and Torians were at war and I was supplying both sides with ships for money. I then took that money and slowly bought up the worlds of dying civilizations. That kind of flexibility in diplomacy would be a nightmare in multiplayer, you'd have to put all kinds of restrictions in the name of balance.

    #2 The majority ends up subsidizing the minority. Outside some game reviewers and people who have friends who are really into this stuff, most people don't know other people on-line to play these games with. And let's face it, playing a turn-based strategy game with strangers is an excercise in frustration (I am not sure I've ever actually managed to complete a TBS on-line without the other player either dropping or quitting prematurely).

    Galactic Civilizations II is $40. Not $50. That $10 may not seem like a lot to some people but to many gamers it makes a difference. Check out the prices on the latest multiplayer strategy games -- they're $49.99. Part of that price is to subsidize the multiplayer component that only a tiny percentage of users will play.

    If there's sufficient demand for multiplayer, we'll do it -- but as an expansion. Those who want multiplayer can then buy it and those who don't aren't forced to pay for it. And everyone wins because they saved $10 in the first place.

    Because of the Metaverse, GalCiv II already has multiplayer plumbing. We even have a multiplayer design. But it'll cost money and time to implement it. So if there's demand, we'll do it. But it has to be demand in raw numbers, not just vocalness of the people who want it.

    #3 It would have changed the design priorities.

    When you design from the start to be a good multiplayer experience you have to make sure the game is streamlined -- particular the interface. So things that might slow the multplayer pacing tend to come out.

    Galactic Civilizations has lots of mini-cut scenes in it. Things to help the player enjoy and savor the civilization they've created. The technology tree is huge and designed to linger through and pick just the right one. The ship design is full of extras that are there so that players can make cool looking ships. The battle screen was implemented to be not just functional but fun to watch. The planetary details screens include quotes from random citizens and there's flavor text all over. Each civilization has its own vocabulary based on who it is talking to (i.e. how a Torian talks to a Terran is different than how they would talk to a Drengin).

    But a good multiplayer game has to be far more streamlined. You don't want to have core features that encourage users to do anything but move their units and make their decisions efficiently. Take a look carefully at any decent multiplayer games recently and notice how efficient they are. Efficient is great in a multiplayer game. But in a single player game, there is something to be said I think for inefficiency -- for fluff.

    And because we designed the game from the ground up to be a single player experience, Galactic Civilizations II has a LOT of fluff:

    The screenshot below, I designed all the ships in this particular game. Every new game I make new ships. Why? Because it's fun. It's not efficient though from a sheer "get to the next turn quickly" point of view:



    And who is going to watch in-depth battles, something that is surprisingly fun in GalCiv II, if some other guy is waiting around.



    In fact, there's a ton of things that involve reading quite a bit of text. There's a lot of customization within the game that has no "point" other than to let players indulge in the civilization they've created.

    It's not that a game with multiplayer can't have these things. Civilization IV has the Civpedia for instance. But the tendancy in a good multiplayer game is to move the text and other stuff out of the way during gameplay and out to a place where it's looked at at ones leisure. And that's a good idea in a multiplayer designed game.

    But these days, nearly all games are designed with multiplayer in mind. And for people who have no shortage of choices on multiplayer, it's nice to have a good old fashioned single player experience where you can sit down and indulge yourself to the full experience.

    I remember a game called Master of Magic back in the early 90s. It was a great game. But it was only a great game because it was single-player. The things that made it really neat would have been a disaster in multiplayer.

    And that's really the point -- multiplayer is a feature. Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't. In some RPGs sometimes they're better being single player (Knights of the Old Republic) and sometimes they're better being multiplayer (Neverwinter Nights).

    For those who think multiplayer is a must in strategy games I hope this post has at least made the case that maybe sometimes multiplayer doesn't belong in the base game.

    I say that as a fan of multiplayer games and a developer of them. Sometimes, multiplayer detracts too much from the single player experience. And for the base game of Galactic Civilizations II, we wanted the single player experience to be the top priority.

  • #2
    I couldn't agree more!

    I dislike having my single player experiences 'watered down' because a handful of people scream 'multiplayer'.

    I have recently begun replaying GalCiv 1 in anticipation of GalCiv 2 release. I usually do that when a sequel is due out to remind myself what I liked and disliked about the original and see if having those issues addressed is enough to make me purchase the new game. In this case it very much is going to be worth it. Discovering all the other extra features I know that have been added is just icing on the cake!

    Lack of ship design ability, the ability to play other races and more depth at the planetary customization level were the only issues I had with the first game and of the three, the lack of ship design capability was the most unfortunate.

    Lack of multiplayer was never an issue for me. If you guys add it later, fine, if you don't add it later I'm still fine. If people can't see the inherent value in a well designed single player experience then that is their loss.

    Thank you for taking the time to let everyone know your reasoning in wanting to design a great game for the majority of players.
    ..there are known ‘knowns’ There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. ~~Donald Rumsfeld

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    • #3
      That is an excellent post on the trade offs between a multiplayer enabled and just single player game. It is an interesting point on how much "value" does it add to the most TBS gamers and how much it costs to add that feature to a game.
      Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
      GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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      • #4
        Very intelligent post. I wonder how much of Microsoft's Xbox losses were down to Xbox Live, a service only used by about 10% of Xbox owners.

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        • #5
          I've always had most fun playing games in a RPG kind of mindset, being part of a story that's being played out in the game (or, partially, in my imagination).
          Ever heard of a space-strategy game called "Reunion"? That game was sublime because it featured a very enthralling story-line. Multiplayer would have been impossible, yet it was exactly because of this that I could immerse myself into the game.
          I'm glad to hear Stardock is attempting to make the SP game as interesting as possible, even if it is at the expense of MP. It certainly makes me more interested.
          DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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          • #6
            Agreed! MP can bite my bucket when it comes to GalCiv! Thanks Brad!

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            • #7
              i tottally agree. i've never finished a game of civ multiplayer (any version), but I've finished thousands of single player games. I'm glad there's someone out there who understands.

              By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may get to be a boss and work twelve hours a day.

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              • #8
                I don't think it's online multiplayer that most turn based strategy game players are looking for, or would utilize, but rather Hotseat play. Hotseat play is, to me, the most important feature any turn based strategy game can have. It is indeed a sales point to me. I play some online games, but for a TBS, nothing beats sharing a night with your friends or family in the same room. Very few other genres of game can allow this form of multiplayer, which is in my opinion, only enhanced by the waits between turns, giving you a chance to chat or even trash talk your enemies or allies.

                There is a huge difference between playing alone, and stabbing your brother, cousin, father or friend in the back when they don't sign your research treaty.

                I also disagree with the very idea that a multiplayer experience must be completely vanilla and devoid of random features to be entertaining. The idea that gameplay should be sacrificed for some bizarre (and totally boring) concept of play balance doesn't resonate with me at all. Some of the best moments in good turn based strategy games are the sudden turns of fate that can shift the momentum of the game in a different direction. I don't buy the argument that multiplayer precludes their inclusion, or that players who would play multiplayer would turn them off.

                I love the look of this game, but it just won't be worth it, to me, without some form of Hotseat feature.
                Last edited by RickyDMMontoya; February 2, 2006, 03:54.

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                • #9
                  I agree that for a game like this online multiplayer is simply not necessary, and the development would not return its investment.

                  However, there have been a couple turn-based strategy games that I have really enjoyed playing by email (PBEM), including Space Empires 4. PBEM games take a long time, and can move very slowly, but have the advantage that they maintains the turn-based feel. Due to the slower pace of swapping turns over email, you never feel rushed as you are doing your turn, you can sit there and analyze to your hearts content and make sure everything is just right before sending the turn. Plus, it doesn't seem like it would be very hard to code PBEM functionality into the game, its basically just a modified save-game function. PBEM is certainly not for everyone, but for grognards who want a serious challenge and don't mind taking more time to complete a game it works great.

                  I should note though, the more turns it takes to complete a game, the less PBEM is really suitable. I have never actually played a game of GalCiv so I don't know how may turns it typically takes, though I'm assuming its dependent on how galaxy size, etc.

                  Still, I would argue that while multiplayer is unnecessary and online multiplayer is probably not worth it, hotseat and PBEM are simpler, viable options that maintain the spirit of single-player turn-based strategy but allow you to match wits against other like-minded folks. All you need is some patience.

                  Just to be clear, I do not think the game needs this functionality. It would be nice, but it will no doubt be a fantastic and complete game without it. I can't wait to match wits against what sounds like a very impressive AI.

                  Any thoughts?

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                  • #10
                    I think that the primary reason for including multiplayer is not the small number of people who will play it, but balance. There are people who play each TBS obsessively, and when you play a lot, you learn a lot, and when you do that, eventually, you break the AI. When you do that then your subsequent playing becomes "scripted" and the fun is lost. You can play scenarios or think up challenges for a while but it is not the same.

                    So indeed multiplayer tends to eliminate most of fluff, but at least some of the fluff imbalances the game seriously. It's fitting in a story, but not so much in a strategy game. Certainly not one trying to become a classic. There's a recent poll in the Civ4 forum, and more people oppose random events than approve of them.

                    I think the number of people who play a lot may be similar to the number of people who play multiplayer though. There aren't that many people who will play 100+ games of any TBS, so even if imbalances introduced by all the singleplayer "fluff" exist, are soon discovered and analyzed on dedicated fora, they won't be around to exploit them.

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                    • #11
                      um... What about LAN?

                      I agree that maybe balance is important in competetive online play, but can't you just make the game playable over LAN?

                      I don't mean to sound hyperbolic here, but I will only buy a TBS game if it supports LAN. I have been playing TBS games since Civ 1, and I am being honest when I say that I bought civ4 not for SP, not for online play, but as a thing me and my buddies can do together on a sunday afternoon.

                      I actually came to this forum to find out if galciv2 is LAN capable straight out of the box. Sadly it's not, and so until it is, I won't buy the game. This is not a threat, or an attempt to make you guys regret anything, I'm just being honest. I don't play TBS strat games (or any games for that matter) unless I can play them against my friends- balanced or not.

                      And on the topic of balance, I don't need every game to be fair. Life isn't fair, and it's ok to have aspects of the game that make it chaotic. Civ4 has no civil wars, and that actually bothers me. I want to be able to win by forcing my friend's empire into civil war.

                      I loved Moo3 almost BECAUSE there was a risk of your empire falling apart at the seams if you made a drastic government change. I liked being able to try to tear an opponent's empire to shreds just with spies and diplomacy. Moo3 even had a ship design screen, but as long as I'm playing with my friends, I can say "hang on, this turn may take a while. I'm designing a new fleet."

                      My point is this: There are people (granted, it may be a small part of your market) who absolutely will not buy a game that isn't multiplayer. I am one of them, and you will not get my $50 for this game. I have 4 friends with whom I play these types of games, and none of them will buy this game because it has no multiplayer. That's $250, plus expansions.

                      I'm sure there are others like me.
                      Listen to my radio show. Saturdays 6-7pm Pacific time. www.titanradio.org

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                      • #12
                        Re: um... What about LAN?

                        Originally posted by 99ranch
                        I'm sure there are others like me.
                        Not very many (in the grand scheme of things) though. If maybe 1000 out of 100,000 would play multiplayer then it wouldn't be worth the money to develop it.

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                        • #13
                          One of my favorite things about this game is the random events. Civ4 was a little too "by the numbers". If multiplayer really takes a third of the game budget, then I wish more games shipped without it. Imagine how much better Civ4 could have been without the multiplayer.

                          To me multiplayer is just a novelty. It isn't something that truly makes a classic. X-Com is a classic without multiplayer because it really provides a challenge. The computer completely controlled the flow the game. The threw a wide variety of challenges at you, and you had to adapt to win. Every move you made in the tactical game was significant to the outcome. Too many strategy games, civ4 included, feel too... predictable. Usually it feels impossible to win if another player is already far ahead. If you were losing the first 75% of the game, you are almost certain to lose during the last 25%.

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                          • #14
                            I bought it. I'm already bored with the AI. Diplomatically asking for the same thing turn after turn after turn after turn after turn, stockpiling 3/4 of their ships on two of their planets. Ho hum. It's a challenge to win. But I do find it boring.

                            Does anyone actually watch the silly little space battles? I didn't find them the slightest bit engaging, and after about the third one simply turned them off. With no control over them there is no purpose to them, and in my opinion, for the amount of hype, they don't deliver. The ships just seem to move in random directions dumping out all their shots every second. There's nothing epic about them.

                            Lastly I still don't buy the "Multiplayer requires no random events and perfect play balance". There is a large scale of multiplayer functionality. There is no need to start running a GalCiv2 league, or ladder or online tournament or any of that competitive garbage, but rather simply allow pickup play and friendly games around the PC, where random events and imbalances between the races can be just as integral and enjoyable as single player...

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                            • #15
                              Re: Re: um... What about LAN?

                              Originally posted by bonscott


                              Not very many (in the grand scheme of things) though. If maybe 1000 out of 100,000 would play multiplayer then it wouldn't be worth the money to develop it.
                              I admited that. I'm just saying that they have cut us out of their market. They did it because it wouldn't be balanced, and we wouldn't get a campaign because they wouldn't have had the money. And the game would suffer as a result of multiplayer capability...

                              But the idea that multiplayer has to finely balanced and competetive is a littlle bit of a flawed mindset. LET ME HAVE THE CHAOS OF RANDOM EVENTS AND RELIGIOUS WARS AND TERRORISM. LET ME TRY TO USE THEM AGAINST MY FRIEND. I don't see what is so hard about that. If you can play any empire you want, and the thing is turn-based, a simple script that changes who the "player" is would make hotseat available. How much money would hotseat have cost if no other changes were made to the game? I would bet that it would be profitable.

                              Companies who make 4x games don't need to spend 1/3 of their budgets for multiplayer because competetive play can wait for patches and expansions. Just give us a platform for LAN, hotseat, and PBEM games. I don't need some sophisticated matching system or a built-in rank system or anything like Blizzard's Battle.net, or UBIsoft's system. All I need is the ability to play the game with my friends.

                              Falcon wrote: "X-Com is a classic without multiplayer because it really provides a challenge."

                              I agree, but I have actually said these words as recently as last week: "If X-com was multiplayer I'd still be playing it"

                              I guess I'm waiting for Moo4 (I'm not holding my breath though).
                              Listen to my radio show. Saturdays 6-7pm Pacific time. www.titanradio.org

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