Shogun 2: Total War

[Al B. Sure!]

Really? No interest in this game? You all would rather play Dragon Age or something?

[Felch]

Empire was fun, Napoleon was a disappointment, and I'll probably get this when it's bundled with DLC.

[Al B. Sure!]

Really? All I've read on forums was universal agreement than Napoleon was what Empire should have been.

[Felch]

In Empire you could bombard fortresses with unlimited quicklime from howitzers. Napoleon nerfed that.

[Guynemer]

Empire was alright, but I'm a little gunshy on these games now. Nothing has really grabbed me since Rome.

[OzzyKP]

I just finished most of the campaign on Empire (like two hours ago). The game was engaging for a bit, but I think I'm over it now. I got Medieval II, opened it up, but couldn't bring myself to play. (you can only pick like 6 countries? lame).

Maybe I just needed to play on a higher difficulty on Empire (I picked the default middle-of-the-road setting) but once I figured out a good strategy for the battles it became a boring rinse & repeat chore.

[Al B. Sure!]

Well I like it.

It's much smaller in scope with a lot fewer units but that's probably better... no confusion trying to figure out how Ottoman Beylik Janissary Musketeers stand up against Austrian Grenzers and all that other vague obscure stuff.

But that also means there's less variety which may make the game boring in the long-run.


Ozzy, what country did you play with in Empire? Maybe playing as one of the American Indian tribes, the Ottomans, or the Indians would be vastly different.

[Proteus_MST]

...
I got Medieval II, opened it up, but couldn't bring myself to play. (you can only pick like 6 countries? lame).
...

Not fully correct...
you can play much more countries, but you have to unlock them by winning a game playing one of the factions present at the beginning.
There may even be a cheat that lets you unlock the other countries without meeting this requirement

[Guynemer]

Most reviews are glowing so far; I may wait to see if there are any big patches needed.

[EPW]

Wow, this one looks much better than Empire. The AI is always a worry though. The multiplayer looks pretty good too.

[Al B. Sure!]

The AI is tougher than what I experienced in my limited time playing Empire custom battles. In Empire, Normal difficulty was a joke and even Hard wasn't very hard. In Shogun, Hard is very tough for me even with a superior force. However, there are 2 related AI glitches. One, a minor one, is that the AI doesn't seem to put its units in loose formation when under archer attack. A bigger problem is that if the AI is defending a castle, you can just rain arrows on them the whole time and the AI pretty much just stands there. I've noticed the cavalry start running towards the rear of the castle when I start hitting them so the AI sort of knows what to do but the other units just stand there and get decimated. Really strange. It's not a huge deal most of the time though because typically a few archer units at the walls can typically take on twice as many archers outside of the walls but any time the AI is defending with no archers or significantly fewer archers than the besiegers, there's a problem.

Part of the reason why the game may be so good though is because of the limited scope. There's a lot fewer units to worry about so that makes the battles better since, like I said, there's no "how do Beylik Janissaries stand up against Grenzers?" and all that weird stuff. The relationships between the units are better defined. This does make me worry about the long-term playability of the game, though, because the factions are so similar, use the same units, etc. There's no drastically different experience like there was in Empire between the Dutch, the Maratha, and the Cherokee.

However, the tech tree is designed so that it is not likely that you will research all the techs. Also, since you want to field better units, you will probably specialize with certain units, probably keeping with the bonuses of your clan. In my first campaign game as the Shimazu, I never even went down the 'defense' side of the tech tree so never even had any Naginata infantry or gunpowder units.

The skill tree for the generals/agents is also very deep and large so you will probably spend some time developing your generals/agents and there is some replayability in that.

It's a very good game probably largely due to its narrow scope. That, however, could be a double-edged sword because it makes me wonder about its long-term replayability beyond a few campaigns.

There is multiplayer though...

[N35t0r]

I'll probably give this a look after I'm finished with Dragon Age 2.

[Lonestar]

I've found that if you don't play as a Western-clan it is *very* hard to afford Samuaia stacks(as in, keeping the western trading posts secure). It's also difficult to tell when you have "crossed the line" and are about ready to cause the "Realm Divide" event. I was very friendly with the Shogunate when they abruptly decided I was their worst enemy(while I had my samurai stacks fighting elsewhere), rallied the Takeda, and took over several of my Eastern provinces on the main island. I got so frustrated I restarted.

[Proteus_MST]

Got the game now as well.

I have to admit that I really like the arrow cam
(if you press "insert" you get into the Ego view of a soldier of your chosen unit...
if it is an archer unit and the soldier shoots an arrow,
you are transferred to an arrow cam, where you can watch in slow motion,
how the arrow together with the rest of the salvo flies towards the enemy unit...
if the distance between archer and target is short enough, you can watch the whole flight,
till it hits the enemy (or something else ))

[Al B. Sure!]

I've found that if you don't play as a Western-clan it is *very* hard to afford Samuaia stacks(as in, keeping the western trading posts secure). It's also difficult to tell when you have "crossed the line" and are about ready to cause the "Realm Divide" event. I was very friendly with the Shogunate when they abruptly decided I was their worst enemy(while I had my samurai stacks fighting elsewhere), rallied the Takeda, and took over several of my Eastern provinces on the main island. I got so frustrated I restarted.

You get warnings every time you go up a level in the "Shogun's Ire". Plus you can check it anytime you want from the Daimyo screen.

People on the Shogun 2 forum ***** about it's too hard with realm divide but that's because you can't just expand and expand and expand. The mid-game is about consolidation before the final push for Kyoto.