Justify this list:

[Guynemer]

If you take a look at the comments you'll see a lot of people asking where either Civ4 or GalCiv2 is.

I know, I'm one of them. (Though not for GC2)

[Guynemer]

BioShock was way, way better than you give it credit for.

Agreed. There were some problems gameplay-wise, such as questionable AI and the consequence-free death. However, it certainly would qualify for the list based on artistic accomplishment and immersion--it is, without a doubt, one of the best-realized game worlds I have ever experienced, and one hell of a story.


That said--yes, its spiritual antecedent, System Shock 2, was better in nearly every way, save graphics and AI. If you haven't played it, Adagio, I strongly suggest giving it a try. Just don't play it with the lights out. Scariest game I have ever played, by a country mile.

[Guynemer]

Honestly, Portal and Rock Band definitely belong on that list (as does, sad to say, The Sims); BioShock and Fallout 3 might belong; GTA:VC might be a stretch. Everything else? Sorry. Not considering what was left off.

[DrSpike]

That's an impossible task

1. BioShock
IMHO the second worst game released that year.

Sacrilege! BioShock was an awesome game on many levels. You have forced me to unite with Asher against you.

[Adagio]

That said--yes, its spiritual antecedent, System Shock 2, was better in nearly every way, save graphics and AI. If you haven't played it, Adagio, I strongly suggest giving it a try. Just don't play it with the lights out. Scariest game I have ever played, by a country mile.

Wait, the AI was worse in SS2? And here I thought the AI couldn't get worse

BioShock was way, way better than you give it credit for.

I'm just saying there's nothing at all in BS that is interesting for me
There's only few good parts in BS:
The story - I rarely play games because of the story, so that one doesn't score many points for me. I liked the story though and tried to force myself to finish it so I could get the complete story, but just couldn't take more of the lack of gameplay
The graphics - Who cares about graphics? I prefer gameplay over graphics, so that one doesn't score many points either

Sounds like they tried to make it scary, but IMHO they failed miserably

But if I start to list up all the features from FPS games that I don't like, then most of those features are found in this game

For those people who like to fight easy zombies using bad weapons or fantasy weapons, in small boring locations, with no chance to die... then BS is a good game, sure

[OzzyKP]

I loved BioShock.

Boring locations?!?! The world was amazing. Perhaps my favorite part of the game.

And while I was scared more playing Condemned 2 than BS it was acceptably scary IMHO. I enjoyed it greatly.

[Zero]

that list seems kinda heavy on recent years.

im sure there were some more noteworthy games from 01 - 03 period.

[RGBVideo]

they're probably trolling the internets, to get more viewers.

hey, it doesn't matter if the site viewers are angry at the site or not. it's more ad revenue.


I love it how BioShock is 1, considering it's basically a dumbed down graphics update to System Shock 2 (which also had a better and more engaging plot). And it's debatable whether either of them belongs to top 15.

Re: Advanced Wars: A very good game, addictive and simple strategy, good in 20-minute-bursts. The sort of game handhelds are designed for.

[DrSpike]

I love it how BioShock is 1, considering it's basically a dumbed down graphics update to System Shock 2 (which also had a better and more engaging plot). And it's debatable whether either of them belongs to top 15.

You're not the first to express that view in this thread. I have to disagree though - the technological advances between BioShock and SS2 have been used successfully to create a much more immersive world. I'd have some sympathy with an argument that SS2 was a bigger step forward for the genre at the time it was released. But the simple fact is if you compare the two games in absolute terms, BioShock is simply better. The combat is better, the story is even more compelling, and the game world even more immersive.

[RGBVideo]

I'd have some sympathy with an argument that SS2 was a bigger step forward for the genre at the time it was released.

= what I tried to imply.

the technological advances between BioShock and SS2 have been used successfully to create a much more immersive world. [..] But the simple fact is if you compare the two games in absolute terms, BioShock is simply better.

I agree.

the story is even more compelling

I disagree, but it's a subjective question. System Shock 2 was had a highly engaging atmosphere because of the story discs, I don't think it worked as perfectly in Bioshock. But atmosphere was very good in both games, the strongest point of them IMO.

and the game world even more immersive

Well yeah, obviously, since PC hardware had developed the graphics were much better and areas larger.

Of course the graphics advantage of BShock is huge compared to SShock2, there's like 10 years between those 2 games. Once you've played BShock, starting up and playing SShock2 looks comical (especially without the unofficial graphics pack).

I'm not really sure whether either of the games should be in top10 of "best games"-list. In the end, they're both average FPS's (well, SShock2 had an added and IMHO good tactical aspect with guns getting degraded with use) with exceptionally great atmosphere.

[KaiserIsak]

I find it strange that neither Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, or Super Mario Galaxy makes the list. Not that all of them should make it, but a list without any of them makes me suspect that they are just too ignorant to care about Nintendos consoles.

World of Warcraft and The Sims are not great games in my personal opinion, but I can understand why they are here. The rest of the games just seems really random. Vice City instead of the revolutionary GTA3? FFXII instead of FFX? And wtf, i LOVE Braid and all, but seriously, the 12th best game of the decade? Better than Half-Life2, Halo, MGS2, Deus Ex, Shadow of the Colossus and the above mentioned Nintendo-games?

However, if would be interesting to see what people here thinks are the best games of the decade. My personal favorite is probably Europa Universalis 2, which is probably the game i have put the most hours into second to only Civ2.

[DrSpike]

VJ: That's ok then.

Btw both games would make my top 20 though. In my book they are shining examples of story driven FPS games, rather than average FPS's.