Empire: Total War

[El_Cid]

Anyone else playing this? I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it here - or maybe it is that good that people are too busy playing?

[Dale]

Not playing yet, it's taking so long to download. Bloody slow.

[Unimatrix11]

Bloody big, too.

So i have tested it. Like all the TW-games, it a jaw-dropper first, but gets repetetive rather quick. I mean you play it for the RTS-battles, mainly, right? But if you had like 5 of them in a session, you will have had enough of it, and with it the entire game, for a month or so. Following the recommendation of some online-tester, i started playing it on hard right away, and with no intention of bragging, i didnt find it challanging at all - did not loose a single battle (except one, where an enemy unit hid behind a house, directly at the battle-frontier, which was impossible to dislodge from there - so due to a game-glitch basically). But admitely, i didnt play it for too long, maybe 20 years into the main campaign, having conquered saxonia and half of poland with the prussians... So i would recommend it only, if you are a fan of the TW-series anyways. It´s definetaly not for every strategy-gamer. The strategic part is very simplistic anyways - i know games 1/1000th the size of ETW being more complex in that aspect. So my summary: Strategic part: rather dull, tactical part: quickly getting repetitive and offering hardly any challange.

[El_Cid]

It's a shame that i suppose since the very first games(even shogun before pathces and expansions) the Ai was never great at doing the Battles, and that is half of the game. The first really big issues seemed to start with Rome(in terms of the AI managing the ruleset) and I don't think CA have got past that yet. I found Med2 got a bit of a chore in that it became a mopping up operation once you had survived the initial stages. The Ai would often field weird armies, and use them badly.

All this stuff should be able to be fixed by patches etc, but well i'm not sure that always happens now, maybe the games are just too complex? I'll look at Empire down the line, maybe when it wont need steam and has a bunch of fixes and expansions, but i'm still very happy with either the shogun(plus expansions) game if i'm feeling into the japanese thing, or the first Medieval(with expansions and mods etc). Both were/are great strategy games that the AI can also play.

[Unimatrix11]

Yeah, i kinda really wonder, what the TW-series selling point is. I mean to those, who already own one of their titles. In empire the seabattles may be, but then again, i dunno. The games resemble each other very much and despite the fact, that they play in vastly different times and a feature is added/modded here and there from title to title, you can still claim with some (but not total) legitemacy: ´You seen one, you seen´em all´, pretty much. So, for newcomers, get a TW, that is on sale somewhere - if you dont like that, chances are huge, you wont like empire either, and still mediocre, that if you do like it, Empire wont give you that much more over what you already have, to justify a new purchase. I got Rome, and well, i dont quite see, why to buy Empire.

[DrSpike]

I only bought STW on release and I feel the same way.

[El_Cid]

don't get me wrong Unimatrix11, I've been a huge fan of the series since Shogun. I've bought every version up until the expansions for Medieval2. Sure it's the same formula, pick nation/clan, expand and conquer on a tbs type map, fight 3D battles in realtime. But i like the different settings and historic parallels that you can either try to follow or break. Over recent years it's been one of the 'bankable' PC games series for me, but now its moving away from what i felt it first brought to my gaming expereince and that last couple of iterations have had serious isues with the AI.

For me this time it's the steam thing that has stopped my buying empire, as it was Securom on the Medieval2 expansions, those for me are just the kind of things i wont look past.

But counter to the glowing reviews in pretty much all the mainstream press about Empire, i've ben reading things that are worrying about the state of health of the series and maybe an indication of where it is going which isn't great news. Once one of the founding designers of the game left CA(can't remember whom exactly) i think change was always on the cards. But exactly in the way that when Bethesda changed focus(and personel) and moved their games to where they are now, I knew that i wouldn't be able to follow as fully as i had.

Things change in the world of gaming, but often it seems from my point of view, not for the better, not for what i look to get out of a game. But i've been spoilt with some of the best games ever made, and those are always hard to live upto!

I hope the TW series can get a handle on the AI problems and work real hard at the real meat+veg of this series design elements and not just go the way of focusing too much on eye candy, which is what i feel has been happning.

[Standup]

Looking on Amazon there seemed to be an awful lot of people who couldn't get it to work either because of Steam or bugs. Seemed a bit at odds with all the 10/10 or 9/10 in the magazines.

Played MTW a bit but found the strategic game lacking. Empire sounds a bit more rounded at that level but not sure I'm interested enough to take a chance on a game that might not work. Also I'm with El Cid on the whole Steam thing. If I buy the DVD I don't expect to have to register with a download site to play the game.

[Dr Strangelove]

Looking on Amazon there seemed to be an awful lot of people who couldn't get it to work either because of Steam or bugs. Seemed a bit at odds with all the 10/10 or 9/10 in the magazines.

Played MTW a bit but found the strategic game lacking. Empire sounds a bit more rounded at that level but not sure I'm interested enough to take a chance on a game that might not work. Also I'm with El Cid on the whole Steam thing. If I buy the DVD I don't expect to have to register with a download site to play the game.

I'm playing it. It's good. It's different than previous TW games. You can no longer recruit spies, priests and assassins at will. You have to wait to get them.
The diplomacy screen is virtually stolen from Europa Universalis. You see a rating of your relationship with a country, from -200 to +200 and can influence it with state gifts, etc.
Research has been introduced.
America, Europe and India are 3 seperate maps which you can transition to and from via special transition zones. Brazil, Africa and the Far East are represented as trade zones.
In battles units move much faster than in previous games, probably to keep the defender from pouring 3 or 4 volleys into charging units. I'd like to point out to the makers that really proficient units could generally get at least 2 volleys in against charging infantry.
As in previous games like this getting ships in formation is a problem. The makers seem to assume that if you try to put ships of different classes in line astern that the crews wouldn't be able to figure our how to set the sails so that everyone matches speed, so the smaller ships outrun the larger ones even if they've been ordered into formation.

What really, really aggrevates me is that they initiallly promised that the game would extend from 1700 to 1830 and it doesn't - it extends from 1700 to 1800. Hence, no Napoleonic Wars. That really cheese me off. After all, even if they had included the Napoleonic Wars in the original game they could still make expansion packs for the rest of the 19th century (American Civil War, Wars of Unification - Germany and Italy, Crimean War, etc,) They also could make an expansion pack for the Musket and Pike era, 1500 to 1700.

[Dinner]

I guess I've played about 30 hours and while the combat is fun the rest of the game is kind of broken. I honestly should have waited a year to get a gold edition because right now it is buggy as hell and very poorly balance while the AI just plain sucks.

[El_Cid]

atleast they are updating and patching things quite quickly - it's probably true that this version came out too soon.

[SpencerH]

After the debacle of M2TW, I'm keeping an eye on whats happening and waiting for the bugs to be worked out before I buy it.

[Spaced Cowboy]

This sucks, I was looking forward to this one.

[Dinner]

atleast they are updating and patching things quite quickly - it's probably true that this version came out too soon.

I haven't seen any patch.

Edit: Ahh, the patches are applied automatically by steam so that's why I didn't see them. Apparently they have released two very small patches but so far that is a joke because after two patches the AI STILL (!!!!) won't land troops using ships. WTF? That is a horrible game breaking **** up and they haven't fixed it. Gee, it's just so fun watching everything just sit there.

[Stuie]

Patch number 3 on it's way later today...

Crash Fixes:

# Fixed crash when disbanding generals unit.
# Fix for crash on trying to merge ships from port into ships next to port.
# Fixed rare crash relating to boarding.
# Fixed crash to do with reinforcing armies.
# Fixed crash on revolution video attempting to play.
# Fixed crash for double clicking on sinking ship on campaign map.
# Fix for crash on merging units but moving into fort before army arrives.
# Fixed several crashes related to rakes.
# Fixed crashes relating to battles when running Czech or German versions of the game.
# Fixed crash on moving army into region of faction player has military access and then cancelling military access.
# Fixed crash on trying to exchange ships between 2 fleets.
# Fixed crash on spamming move orders to puckle guns locked in melee combat.
# Fixed hard lock on inviting host to their own MP game.
# Fix to prevent loading of mod causing crash post patch.
# Various end turn crash bugs fixed.
# Fixes to crash bugs relating to completion of revolutions.
# Some fixes relating to merging and disbanding.
# Fix for several crashes in land battles.
# Several crashes relating to attacking cities fixed.
# Several load save game crashes fixed.

Campaign:

# Armies now placed correctly on battlefields in relation to campaign.
# Fix for nearby ships sometimes not being included as reinforcements for battles.
# Fix for incorrect numbers sometimes showing on trade routes.
# Units with limits on how many can be recruited now show how many are available.
# Various fixes relating to rakes and infiltrating.
# Fixes relating to problems moving armies/merging into army's right next to settlements.
# Various trade bug fixes.
# Fix for moving agent from settlement moving army instead of agent.
# Fix for several bugs relating to military access and armies being in regions.
# Fix for tattered flags appearing on fleet/armies even when at full strength/fully repaired.
# Fix for sallying out armies breaking siege at times even when losing the battle.
# Fix for bugs relating to capturing ships on returning to campaign map from naval battle.

Land Battle:

# Improvements to path finding have been made.
# Some fixes to units not garrisoning buildings.
# Fort gate ownership made clearer with faction flags appearing at the gatehouse.
# Fix for problem relating to artillery unlimbering after being ordered to limber.
# Fix for puckle guns moving on their own in some circumstances.
# Fix for big slowdown in unit movement on some battle maps in the Road to Independence episodes.
# Fix for missile cavalry not reloading when out of combat.
# Jaegers now have muskets instead of incorrect rifles, Prussian Jaegers keep rifles.
# Quebec episodic land battle fixed ground type in deployment area
# Fix for unrealistic numbers when ending a land battle by quitting on the battle results screen.

Naval Battle:

# Several fixes for ships clipping into each other.
# Improvements to boarding have been made. Crew is more fluid in attack and more resolute in defence. Men survive long fall and officers join in the boarding attack.
# Crew uniforms improved to make identification of the crew type and faction easier.
# Defending ship is not allowed to fire cannons anymore during boarding procedure.
# Improved naval grouping UI and group movement made.
# Improvements made to ship collisions to reduce chance of ships getting stuck.
# Fix for sail damage not being shown when volumetric effects turned on.

Multiplayer:

# Various fixes for joining games/game lobby issues.
# Fixes for problems relating to spectators being kicked/locking up on other players joining games in certain instances.
# Long riflemen and winged hussars removed from early era battles.
# Fix for insufficient funds always showing on unit cards even when enough money is available.
# Player name is now displayed on unit tooltips.
# Team chat is now displayed in a different colour.

AI:

# Basic fix for AI being unable to move army by fleet.
# Aggression of factions in campaign improved, as well as tweaks to diplomacy.
# Improvements to campaign AI relating to its waging of wars, recruitment and movement of armies.
# Improvements made to battle AI to make it more reactive, use buildings better as well as squares and rakes.
# Siege battle AI improvements made.
# Improvements to naval AI to make it bunch up less, its use of galleys and long range units such as bomb ketches.

Miscellaneous:

# Delete save game button added to save game list.
# View replays button added to single player Play Battle menu.
# Various sound fixes and improvements.
# Various incorrect text messages fixed.
# Fixes to various graphical glitches with display of walls.
# Fixes made for stuttering videos.
# Fix for several game option settings not being saved correctly, including settings such as floating flags.
# Fix for unit voices/attack confirmation being heard for all units in an alliance instead of just for the player's army.
# Armour and shield values are now added into melee defence value shown on unit cards.
# Lots of other small and minor bug fixes.

Balancing:

# Land unit recruitment cost in campaign has been increased, with higher cost on higher difficulty level.
# Ship recruitment and upkeep costs have been increased in campaign.
# Various balancing and cost adjustments to improve multiplayer land battle balance.
# Ship costing improvements made for both campaign and multiplayer.
# Economic tweaks have been made to campaign to reduce amount of money made in later part of campaign.

Extra Note:

# We are aware of an issue with community created maps that results in a crash when someone without the map tries to join the game. This crash will be fixed in the next patch.
# Further work is being done on improving AI Naval invasion behaviour and this will be included in the next upgrade patch.
# Please also note that this update is save game compatible but you should start a new game to see all of the benefits.