Console Wars VI

[Asher]

It's not. DrSpike knows as well as I do LOTM isn't contributing anything of value with his post (which is precisely why he hasn't responded to it or started a discussion on it).

The difference between DrSpike and myself is I've got a spine and I call it as I see it. DrSpike is happy being a polite coward, I'm not. It's a British thing.


DrSpike seems to think we need any and all posters here. You can go to YouTube and read the comments to find out why that's a bad idea. I'm not surprised DrSpike is alarmed by the concept of posting standards and quality of discussion, given what he often contributes to this site.

Let's snap back to reality here: LOTM posted what was a clear attempt to troll -- and in particular, troll me. Every successive post he made in reply to the post makes that even more clear. What the hell do you guys expect? LOTM is playing this game, so am I -- deal with it.

I even made an attempt to have a real discussion on the matter by asking for more details and basically spurring conversation, and all I got in response was more shrugging and lack of any coherent contribution. The man's a spambot, and a dull one at that. He wasn't posting to provoke a conversation in this thread, he was posting to provoke me. He saw an article which shows the Wii sales being higher than the 360, didn't know **** all about anything else involved, and spammed it here without comment to get a rise out of me. When I tried to query him about it and explain what was going on I got nothing out of him except more further bait. A troll's a troll, even when he's old and irrelevant.

So why don't the lot of you back off and discuss the topic for once? You get on my case for making this all "personal" but it's clear to me that you have no interest in the subject matter. Most of the time you guys have been posting in this thread was certainly far less on-topic than what I posted. You guys are hypocrits and you're too stupid to realize it.

Now, if anyone has anything of VALUE to say, now would be the time to do it. Because I've really had enough of DrSpike's spam, AC's innuendos and smalltalk, and Nikolai's me-too attitude to go with LOTM's ignorant drive-by trolls.

[El_Cid]

hmmm I like my PS2, and am not worried that i dont want to play 360/PS3 or Wii games

[Alinestra Covelia]

Now, if anyone has anything of VALUE to say, now would be the time to do it. Because I've really had enough of DrSpike's spam, AC's innuendos and smalltalk, and Nikolai's me-too attitude to go with LOTM's ignorant drive-by trolls.

Actually, I was waiting for you to say something like this - at least this way we understand each other.

In this case, your inability to be civil outweighs the dubious benefits of wading through your vitriol to get at the good bits.

Asher -> ignore list. Hope you get your job groove back. Good luck.

[flash9286]

One wonders what is in the future for the PS3. Supposedly, Sony is going to post around a 2.2 billion operating loss for fiscal 08. With the Playstation group posting a 337 million increase in loss(unclear what the base is) for fiscal 08. Meanwhile, the xbox division posted a 426 million profit.

I also wonder if the supposedly high costs of developing games for the PS3 will lead more studios to not make games for the ps3, in these economic times.

[lord of the mark]

Let's snap back to reality here: LOTM posted what was a clear attempt to troll -- and in particular, troll me.

Cause Asher has never dropped in a trollish remark into a thread about the Wii, PC gaming, or even into Spike's thread about Braid.

I mean his initial response to a Kotaku piece that was clearly expressing surprise about Activision sales on the Wii vs the 360, was to troll the PC. What does he want exactly? For me to go research every game that Activision has made for the 360 since late 2007? Does anybody think that would result in civil discussion? Or just that he would dismiss whatever I found with snarky remarks and insult?

See if you want serious discussion, you have to respond to it differently from what you consider trolling. But Asher seems to consider ANY position that differes from his own to be trolling, ESPECIALLY when expressed by someone with less training in comp sci than his own. (more training in a field, even when its relevant, like say economics, doesnt matter of course) It all ends up with snark, trolling and insult on his part.

I think the good Doctor is right, its some insecurity thing.

[El_Cid]

flash9286 - "I also wonder if the supposedly high costs of developing games for the PS3 will lead more studios to not make games for the ps3, in these economic times."

They have to. Credit is harder to get, more and more studios are hemorrhaging cash, and the PS3 game sales are anemic. There's already posts on Beyond3D and other sites from game developers who have been told by their publishers they are not to pursue PS3 development due to high costs and low sales.

I agree making the PS3 so difficult to dev for is probably going to bite them in the ass for the next few years. So does that mean everyone is mostly going to concentrate on the Wii the most? EA have hinted they are going to shift in that direction. The 360 still has a decent number of platforms out in the world so should be fine....but(being devils advicate) say things get rougher economicaly speaking will we be likely to see games developed on Wii first then ported(as cheaply as possible) to 360?


[this is very toungue in cheek - i guess i'm seeing if asher can show restraint ]

[lord of the mark]

much anger snipped

In discussion forums people ordinarily post a mix of things. Sometimes comments, long and involved, or short. Sometimes links with commentary. Sometimes just links.

everyone here knows I often post my opinions, and often post links with my opinions attached. This time I posted a link on its own.

I am sorry that riles you up, but if its againt the Terms of Use here, please let me know.

And no, discussing games isn't my work. Games are a hobby for me, and chatting about the economics of console wars a minor aspect of my hobby, since I don't even own one. I post here for fun. As, I suspect, do most of us here. Sorry, again, if that bothers you. Nonetheless, the link I posted was relevant. And your anger merely shows something about you.

[lord of the mark]

T
For the record (and this is where your stupidity comes in), I haven't accused DrSpike of trolling or anyone else in this thread.

Perhaps not, but over the years you have insulted him and others, cursed, and ranted. Quibble that you didn't call him a troll, and avoid the fact that I did not confine my comment to this thread.

[DrSpike]

I wasn't going to post until we got past this but since the discussion has turned to me I feel compelled to.

I don't disagree with the statement that Asher and I get along fine. We often trade barbs because I find it amusing to point out logical inconsistencies when Asher pushes his extreme arguments too far and I'm very good at this, which attracts ire. But actually on the core issues discussed here we largely agree.

However I think we need to this take it back to what started this off - Asher's complaints (post 196) that LotM was trolling and that when discussions are derailed here is is predominantly due to that and other posters (me and AC were mentioned) dragging them off topic.

My take Asher (and I think this is the point LotM is trying to make in his roundabout way) is that it is you who is most guilty generally in terms of dragging discussions into the mire, through trolling or your tendency to respond to opposing viewpoints with attacks. This is why as one of the most active forum posters I have repeatedly asked you to moderate this behaviour. This doesn't mean you have to stop disagreeing with people - it just means I think you should be capable of doing that without being an ass.

So whilst we 'get along fine' it would be more accurate to say that although I personally have no problem with you I do have a problem with what you are doing to this forum.

[DrSpike]

It's not about promoting quantity over quality, as you well know. I myself consistently disagree with some positions laid out here a lot (El Cid's various views for instance) with a view to stopping what I see as poor arguments being deployed. I don't want to stop you disagreeing with posters; I want you to stop attacking posters. You can't possibly believe that personal attacks are the best way to lead to an intelligent debate.

In fact all that happens is we get dragged into the mud, and conversations like this one. I think despite what you are claiming here that you like it that way. Prove me wrong, perhaps.

[El_Cid]

Since the 360 is cheaper than the Wii, I don't see the advantage in Wii development. You don't need to spend more money on a 360 title to leverage all of the fancy hardware. You can make simple, low-fi games like on the Wii -- but easier.

The 360's in a real solid position, as is the Wii. The only one in trouble here is Sony.

I agree the 360 is in a good spot, from the point of view of the gamer(it's had the longest time 'out there' so devs have got a great handle on how to use it well - the comparative quality of 360 vs PS3 games would show that) and the sales numbers are good.

Yeah i read that the 360 is the easiest to dev on, but the Wii is the cheapest(probably simply because you dont need to spend the man hours on graphics as it just can't compete with the 360+PS3 on that level), and that was one of the reasons EA were looking to target it more.

Also we should consider that the Wii is the only hardware not making a loss at point of sale for the repective company. I know that gets recouped in software sales, but in tough times any advantage could be vital. I was also reading of yet more price cuts to come(especialy in terms of the PS3) and wonder if the Wii will enter in that over the coming months in the run up to a probably rather slim xmas this year?

Anyway thanks for the conversation

oh re Ico, not yet - i saw one copy about a month back in a local store and nearly picked it up, but figured i'd get it online later.....and well that hasn't happened yet. At the mo my gf is taking over the PS2 with her epic(200+ hours so far!!!) Rogue Galaxy game.

i'm having to survive on Civ IV FFH2(mod) hotseat and single player games - it's a tough life

[Wiglaf]

Trolling in this forum? Please. I'm not gay, but if I were, you guys would be the first to know. There's something about the Other Games forum that is sexually disarming.

[Sharpe]

Good catch LOTM.

Look at the PC's pathetic sales when you exclude World of Warcraft.

Your link demonstrates it's clearly a dead platform unless you want to make MMORPGs.

Hmm, that is a bit too much of a logic leap I think. What is past isn't necessary what is present or future.

You are neglecting to mention that the Blizzard half of the company hasn't produced a new non-WoW game for the PC in nearly 7 years. However, as you are likely well aware, Bliz is currently working on Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 - highly anticipated games of a series that would be considered to be highly successful on any platform.

If those games aren't up to expectations, it is still likely they will both sell over 2 million copies each and much more than that if they are comparable to their predecessors. Considering that the Starcraft series has sold over 11 million copies and the Diablo series over 18 million copies, 2 million is likely a lowball figure especially given that both games will likely attract the attention of the 11-14 million that play WoW.

Even with only 2 million copies, that would generate over $100 million each in revenue once you add ancillary revenues from collectors editions, strategy guides and other things.

Is PC a dead platform? No, definitely not yet. People have been writing articles about PC gaming dying for over 20 years and it still survives. That organization that releases gaming sales amounts continually underestimates the amount of PC game sales by a large margin. Think they only showed about 1 billion dollars in PC sales, but Blizzard's PC revenues alone exceeded that amount by over 20%. Granted, consoles are now dominant for gaming - no doubt about that, but PC gaming is still viable right now.

[Zero]

How long do you guys think current gen consoles will last? trend seems like they get replaced within 5-6 years, so will we see a new one announced pretty soon?

I want to get a ps3 whenever they do a price cut, but I'm thinking if it's too late it's not even worth getting one and holding out for next gen. Especially since now that I own a 360. I wasnt even thinking about owning a console before that...

[DrSpike]

3-5 years.

As to now, get a 360. You can pick them up really cheap - I saw an Elite going for about £150 on sale the other day, less than a Wii. You can get the cheaper version like the Arcade (though I wouldn't recommend it) for less than £100.