Console Wars VI

[Asher]

Indeed, sony is in big trouble. It's a hard fall from way out front to scraping along the bottom!! I have the answer mind you And i've read one or two articles from sony bosses that point in the same general direction. But it's a tough call on their part.

A possible solution:

Typicaly once a new gen machine is out the manufacturer stops/phases out support for the old gen. Xbox as an example of how clinical that needs to be done under normal operating parameters(360 sells well so 'encourage' old xbox gamers to move to the new platform by slowly but completely stopping future dev on the old platform).

I have my doubts that the PS3 can carry things for sony like the 360 is for MS. So time for a brave move. Keep supporting the PS2 - it has still by far the largest living room footprint of all the consoles(Wii included!). And from those sony articles i've read they have been saying that they will indeed keep supporting the PS2, but i dont mean by the occasional release which is what i understand them to mean.
I'm talking full support, heck maybe even look at bringing out a new model, but you need to make sure the games(good ones mind you) are there to support such a move.

Keep on with the PS3, but in tough financial times i just can't see it developing soon into the success they hoped it would be, so keep it going and the games coming for that 'hardcore' segment of the market that want a super powerful console, and maybe prefers sony over MS. You have to keep in the race, even if your going to lose it this time.

But yeah full all bells ringing and dancing support back to the PS2 - the devs know how to make great games on the hardware, so get people back into that machine and the software sales will help fill the gaps.

But that is a huge step to take - it basicaly admits defeat in a corporate console wars kind of way, but you know....so what? better to play to your streangths than your weaknesses, any self respecting samurai who understood bushido and the words of Sun Tzu should see the bigger picture.

But yeah a tough place for sony currently. The Wii's success to pull nintendo from bottom to top shows a bit of lateral thinking can work in todays less hardcore market. Time to gamble for sony?

No, this is a terrible idea. The PS2 is way too weak to compete with the 360 and lacks the Wiimote that makes the Wii attractive to many people. It's actually very difficult to make games for, to boot. You also can't look at the number of consoles sold and assume that's a viable market -- most PS2s are shelved or in the dustbin these days.

The Wii has replaced the PS2 for the casual gamers (the SingStar and My Little Pony-game buying public). The 360 has replaced the PS2 for core gamers.

Sony has nothing but Bluray fans and diehard fanboys...

[Nikolai]

I'm not sure if you actually follow the industry...not too long ago it was #1. Then #2. Now #3.

It is actually contracting -- and the home console (non-portable) market especially is in rapid decline. On top of that, the US and UK have explosive growth.

What is happening with gaming in Japan IS a bad thing. Japanese developers like Konami are now intentionally Americanizing their games, which restricts choice in the market.

It's sales that matters, isn't it? Too bad for the future, but no one knows what the future holds and in the mean time Japan is still a very large market. I agree it's bad for the market that diversity disappears of course, but that's not what we are talking of.

[Jon Miller]

It makes sense when considering Japan's demographics that their market would shrink.

I am something of a PS fanboy (I have owned the PSP, PS, and PS2), but previously to the last 6 months I would definitely have purchased a 360 if I were to get a current console. Right now, the PS3 looks more like a possibility.

And yeah, I definitely should have purchased a DS rather than a PSP, but I am very happy with my other two purchases.

JM

[Asher]

It's sales that matters, isn't it? Too bad for the future, but no one knows what the future holds and in the mean time Japan is still a very large market. I agree it's bad for the market that diversity disappears of course, but that's not what we are talking of.

It's a bad thing for Japan's market to contract and them to lose their leadership position.

So you getting on my case for acting like it's a bad thing is misguided, is all...

[El_Cid]

No, this is a terrible idea. The PS2 is way too weak to compete with the 360 and lacks the Wiimote that makes the Wii attractive to many people. It's actually very difficult to make games for, to boot. You also can't look at the number of consoles sold and assume that's a viable market -- most PS2s are shelved or in the dustbin these days.

The Wii has replaced the PS2 for the casual gamers (the SingStar and My Little Pony-game buying public). The 360 has replaced the PS2 for core gamers.

Sony has nothing but Bluray fans and diehard fanboys...

No i said specificaly that the they shouyld keep the PS3 as their competion for the high end console/360 market - they have to stay in that game. But as they are taking a kicking in regaurds to the PS3, they should look at continuing to support the PS2(which they have said they will) but in a big 'full support' way. Not as competition directly to the Wii, but to generate the software sales on a hardware system the devs can really harness and get the most out of. It would fall exactly in the gap between the Wii and the 360. Something more hardcore than the Wii, but not as technicaly powerfull/expensive as the 360/PS3. The key would be to get the great IP and titles to re-kickstart it(the PS2), and that could be a bannana skin having seen the pretty poor attempts to do the same with the PS3....but many devs complain about how tricky it is to use the PS3 - no such problems with the PS2.

But of course i expect you to not even see the potential here, I've said something so it's obviously completely wrong right? Luckily(for sony) a few CEO types at sony have started to think in my general direction

[Asher]

No i said specificaly that the they shouyld keep the PS3 as their competion for the high end console/360 market - they have to stay in that game.

So your answer for them is to further stretch themselves thin across two dying platforms? This makes NO SENSE in any way.

But as they are taking a kicking in regaurds to the PS3, they should look at continuing to support the PS2(which they have said they will) but in a big 'full support' way.

The kicking they're taking in the PS2 is far greater than that of the PS3. And its potential far less. Games sales for the PS2 are even worse than the PS3. This makes NO SENSE in any way.

But of course i expect you to not even see the potential here, I've said something so it's obviously completely wrong right? Luckily(for sony) a few CEO types at sony have started to think in my general direction

You're ****ing delusional.

PS2 game sales are falling at a tremendous rate. Sony execs are NOT pushing PS2 game development, I don't know WHY you think they are. In fact it came out yesterday that Sony's execs were pissed off God of War 2 came out for the PS2 in even 2006, rather than the PS3. The PS3 is their focus, not the PS2. And that's as it should be.

The only way out of this for Sony is to launch a PS4 before the Wii2/Xbox3. The PS2 and PS3 are both doomed right now, which is precisely why they're not being more aggressive on the price front -- it'd lose them more money and not change the big picture.

[El_Cid]

I'm not going to bother anymore with you Asher - you are such a muppet.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88681

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/01/14/sony-ps2-remains-important-touts-2009-and-2010-lineup/

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21109

Unlike you I have no agenda(MS vs Sony et all) - you just have decided to spout whatever comes into your head to 'prove' me wrong. I could say, "hey the sky is blue and the grass green" and you would no doubt take exception.

You are just not worth my time anymore - sorry. Your bias is totaly obvious.

[Asher]

Holy ****. Of course they're going to still support it. Every PS2 they sell generates profit. They're not going to drop it while it's still selling a hundred thousand a month!

But you're ****ing completely ape**** delusional if you think they're going to divert PS3 dev resources to the PS2.

I'm glad you're not going to talk to me anymore because I'm not sure I could take any more of your crap.

[El_Cid]

You're ****ing delusional......Sony execs are NOT pushing PS2 game development, I don't know WHY you think they are.

Holy ****. Of course they're going to still support it.

= not worth my time troll boy. I'm glad we agree on one thing, that it's not worth talking to one another

over and out.

[Asher]

You seriously don't understand the difference between "not pushing PS2 game development" and "still supporting it"? They're not going to stop manufacturing a console that makes them money with every sale, but they recognize the future isn't in the PS2 for the company as well.

As long as the PS2 makes them money they'll produce a handful of units and publish a handful of trivial games with minimal effort (eg, new Singstar games). But where they are pushing game development? Where they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on game development? That is and continues to be the PS3.

You very, very clearly have no functional grasp on the gaming industry if you think Sony is going to look at the figures showing a 62% decline in PS2 sales and agree with your hamfisted logic and say "you know what, we're not making enough PS2 games!". The PS2 is an aged platform that is rapidly on its way to death, and there's NO REASON at all for Sony to pretend like it's not dead. The casuals have moved on to Wiis, the cores have moved on to 360s, but focusing on the PS2 the only thing Sony would accomplish is alienating the few people who DID buy their latest console and piss them off enough so they never make that mistake again.

[El_Cid]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3932/npd_behind_the_numbers_january_.php

A good indepth look at sales figures across the board, hardware and software.

[DrSpike]

"The reality is that Nintendo rules this industry. Hardware, software, and accessory sales for Nintendo's twin powerhouses, the Wii and Nintendo DS, accounted for nearly half of all revenue in 2008"

Well played Nintendo.

Also calls into question the usual assertion here that due to the lower priced games and a lower attach rate Nintendo fare relatively poorly in the revenue stakes, despite selling a lot of units.

[Asher]

Also calls into question the usual assertion here that due to the lower priced games and a lower attach rate Nintendo fare relatively poorly in the revenue stakes, despite selling a lot of units.

Wanna cite that assertion? Should be pretty simple given your statement that it's "usual".

[DrSpike]

It's in one (or more) of the older CW threads. Perhaps other posters can help me remember who deployed said argument, and we can find it.

[Asher]

It'd be a pretty odd assertion because revenue means **** all...