Anyone still playing Spore?

[Asher]

I didn't say he was extraordinaire, I just pointed out that he wasn't a developer and that he could be classed (not my personal clarification but based on media, the industry and peers) as a good game designer for SimCity and The Sims franchises (you stated all good game designers were developers in their past).

Oh, and what did you say? Oh that's right, you lost the argument on that point and just started swearing at me.

You didn't win that argument. Will Wright is a terrific example of game developers without the technical background. His games are actually terrible, he's just a media darling and a brilliant toy maker for people with low IQs.

[Solver]

Will Wright has at least studied engineering subjects at a tech university. He may not be a crazy math genius like John Carmack but he actually comes from a tech background and has had a lifelong interest in that stuff. A better example of a gamemaker without a tech background is Miyamoto, he actually graduated from an art school.

But yeah, sadly, Will Wright's games, SimCity aside, are extremely simple and only really appealing to the very casual crowd.

[Asher]

I meant a technical background as in software/game development, not a scientific background. I suppose going to school where you actually have to think (as opposed to what Frozzy and Dale have to do) helps a bit, but it wasn't my point.

[DrSpike]

You didn't win that argument. Will Wright is a terrific example of game developers without the technical background. His games are actually terrible, he's just a media darling and a brilliant toy maker for people with low IQs.

No, Dale did win on that point.

However, I also wait expectantly for Frosty to post a link of him cornering anyone at all in a debate.

[Asher]

No, Dale did win on that point.

So you think Will Wright is a good game designer?

He doesn't even design GAMES most of the time, let alone GOOD GAMES.

Will Wright made one GOOD GAME ever, the original SimCity. His history shows us he clearly just lucked out with that one.

If you're just going to say "but his 'games' sell lots so he must be good" I'm going to pre-emptively give you the finger and categorize you with Dale, Frosty, Ben Kenobi, and Agathon.

[DrSpike]

You know full well my opinion on his games. I hate the Sims and Spore, and don't even like Sim City much.

Dale still won the argument on that point though.

[Asher]

You know full well my opinion on his games. I hate the Sims and Spore, and don't even like Sim City much.

Dale still won the argument on that point though.

How could he win? You agree with me that he is not a good game designer, and Frosty said he was an example of a good game designer.

Are you aware you are internally inconsistent here?

[DrSpike]

As for Spore, Zoid you really should have read the Spore forums before buying. Before release it was full of people gushing about how brilliant it was going to be, with a small number of people like me who thought it was going to be lacking in actual gameplay and a shameless cash-in.

I don't need to say which group were proved correct.

[DrSpike]

How could he win? You agree with me that he is not a good game designer, and Frosty said he was an example of a good game designer.

Are you aware you are internally inconsistent here?

No. I'm merely able to see beyond my personal preferences when evaluating the strength of arguments.

I personally do not like Will Wright's games. But the context in which you were debating this with Dale was whether you could be a successful desginer without starting via a more hands-on coding route. Will Wright (and some of the other examples actually) fit the bill, and as such on this point Dale won the argument.

[Asher]

No. I'm merely able to see beyond my personal preferences when evaluating the strength of arguments.

No, it is more apt to say you defer opinions to the general public as you are unable to make your own.

Will Wright is not a good game designer, regardless of what the lonely housewives of middle America think.

You're also moving the goal posts from "good game designers" to "successful game designers". These are patently not the same things.

[snoopy369]

It rather depends on what you define 'good game designer'.

Sales? Certainly he qualifies there, and you could say that is the key definition in the current (capitalist) day. It is not unreasonable to equate successful with good, I'd say.

Artistic merit? I would assume you don't mean this, as designers are by nature better than programmers at the art part. Plenty of games that look pretty and play for ****, also.

Making games you like? Well then, I guess nobody can really argue with you on that one I enjoyed SimCity and SimCity2000 quite a bit, so thus he is a good game designer in my opinion, even if he has some **** games to his name.

[DrSpike]

It rather depends on what you define 'good game designer'.

Sales? Certainly he qualifies there, and you could say that is the key definition in the current (capitalist) day. It is not unreasonable to equate successful with good, I'd say.

Making games you like? Well then, I guess nobody can really argue with you on that one

Guess which one Asher prefers.

[Asher]

"Good" is obviously a subjective metric to begin with. Why you fools choose to pretend otherwise would be perplexing to someone who isn't used to this nonsense from the usual suspects...

[El_Cid]

It was in an interview article with EA's CEO John Riccitiello on Gamasutra about a month back? He was talking about finding this complex evolution of ameba game and all the guys(will wright/design team) were saying how cool it was and you could do many things to change your creature, and Mr Riccitiello didn't get it, so they stripped most of that out etc.
I got as far as page 12 in the 'news' section then after that gamasutra had some issues getting further pages.
Have a look if you want? I generally don't make things up, but if i find it i wil be sure to post it if you promise to apologise to me

[DrSpike]

I wont be holding my breath.