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**Asher** · May 19, 2008, 16:56

Didn't the Diablo devs make Hellgate?

And this thing is free? Not sure I like the pay-for-littlethings model.

**snoopy369** · May 19, 2008, 16:58

Dungeon Runners was a very similar game not that long ago I played in beta ... in the sense that it is Diablo-esque, with better graphics, MMO, and free for the basic game but you pay for upgrades (more room, and you had to pay to be allowed to use the rarest items). It was an ncsoft game, IIRC. (You didn't actually pay-for-littlethings, per se, but you were either a free account or a subscription fee account.)

Apparently that model works...

**DrSpike** · May 19, 2008, 17:01

I've not researched it at all but my guess is the funding model would be similar to Dungeon Runners, based partly on functional improvement (voice chat, better interface, no queuing etc) and partly on shameless leveraging of desire for phat lewt (only offering the best items and experience boosts to members).

**snoopy369** · May 19, 2008, 17:16

Unfortunately, that doesn't look like the way they're going, from their forum posts. (Below, long, summary follows here)

Summary: Dual currency, one is in-game currency and one is 'bought', you can trade between the two at a fixed exchange rate, and/or sell stuff to players for one currency or the other; you then can buy certain things, like potions of experience or an item stash, with 'bought currency'. A free player technically could do anything a paying player could do, he'd just have to spend a lot longer doing it.

Basically - imagine free Everquest, but with gold purchases sanctioned by Sony. Feel free to comment on the validity or not of said system

I'll address this since there is some confusion. To make Mythos all it should be, obviously we have to make some money. So we are creating a second currency (let's call it Ingots until we think of something better) that will be purchased with real money. These Ingots will let you buy various enhancements in game. Our plans will be guided by a couple important principles:

1) The Ingots will be freely tradable once they are purchased. So if a non-paying player finds a killer item, he can "trade" it to a paying customer for Ingots. This will result in a mixed economy where everything is available to everyone.

2) We don't want to simply sell the best loot. There will not be a vendor with the best arrmor or swords for the richest players. Instead, we will sell things that only enhance your ability to go out and find the loot yourself. Additionally the Ingots will buy cosmetic items like crazy hairstyles, account enhancements, guild items, and that sort of thing. We do NOT want to create a split community between haves and have-nots. Players unable to spend real money will simply have to put more time into it, but will be able to have just as powerful a character as a paying customer.

Mythos is a global project, and will release in Asia separately from the US/Europe commercialization date (undetermined at this point). For those of you familiar with the Asian gaming community, the Cash Shop (or RMT for "real money transactions") model is now standard. Most games operate that way. We do not have the time, money, or staff to create multiple versions of Mythos that work on different business models (yet!) and we think it's a great model that lets you pay if you want to, but also allows players to succeed without any financial committment at all.

We realize there are pluses and minuses for every model and that not everyone will be satisfied no matter what we do. Not everyone can commit to a monthly subscription. And a box product doesn't allow continued development, doesn't work in Asia, and requires a substantial up-front payment. So this model lets EVERYONE IN THE WORLD play Mythos, and offers enhancements for those who don't have as much time to invest and can afford to pay. No solution will make everyone happy, and we're doing our best to strike the best balance we can.

That being said, we still welcome your input. Making the customer happy is what we're all about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaldree
The aim with Mythos is to do a dual-currency system. There'll be the copper/silver/gold you earn now, and a 'bought' currency. You can actually see that icon in the bottom-left of the inventory panel.

Some items will require both currencies, or one or the other. ( Not ALL items - just some, certain kinds, partially TBD )

Ingame, there'll be an exchange rate, and a way to trade copper/silver/gold for 'bought' currency, and vice versa. People who don't have any time and just want to buy stuff won't be able to necessarily just buy it - they'll have to trade for ingame currency. And certain items will require people who play and earn their cash to trade for bought currency.

In that way, people who want to play a lot and never ever pay a dime can still get access to EVERYTHING that a 'paying' individual could. And people with no disposable time whatsoever or short attention spans can trade for ingame currency with their bought currency to buy certain items.

Anyway, the core idea is that we really do want people to be able to play the whole thing without having to pay actual money. But we still need to make some. So we've been looking at the models that Three Rings uses for Bang! Howdy, and Yo-Ho-Ho : Puzzle Pirates as an interesting way to do that.

I probably didn't explain that right at all. It's sort of wierd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorBalbi
Well, it's time I bring it back from the past! My good ol' trusty Cardboard Tube of Asshattery. Now, say I have Shiny Sword of Infinite Awesomeness in our "Ingot shop" (placer name lol). TiberiusAudley doesn't want to pay for Ingots so he ignores it and tries to sell his new uber drop from Zivia. Now just because the SSoIA costs Ingots, doesn't mean only people who purchase ingots can get it. We're going to allow Ingots to be tradable to other players.

Hero could buy TiberiusAudley's legendary Duster for (lets just make it up) 100 Ingots. TiberiusAudley having never purchased Ingots, can now afford the SSoIA. We're not going to force people who don't pay to play with Carboard Tubes of Asshattery when someone who pays for Ingots has the SSoIA. We're allowing everything to be accessible, just easier for those who pay for ingots. Eventually the community will have an exchange rate (hopefully) and people will be able to just interchange ingots for gold whenever they want. We're just not going to lock things in to paying players as an incentive to pay for Mythos.

All items are usable by all people, and ingots are tradable to each other as well. There's no favoritism or anything like that going on, so everyone can enjoy all parts of Mythos if the ingame price is right

**DrSpike** · May 19, 2008, 17:21

If they are explicitly about that up front then I've no problem with it.

**snoopy369** · May 19, 2008, 17:36

I imagine it depends largely on:
1. Number of 'paying' customers (thus exchange rate)
2. Things you have to 'pay' for to buy.
3. Combination of 1 and 2 leads to, Simplicity of 'buying' success

Also, the competitiveness matters a lot - if this were GW or similar, wouldn't it matter a lot that you could buy the best stuff and/or a better character? However, if it's a game that's not as 'competitive' and more about co-op gameplay, it doesn't matter as much...

**Felch** · May 19, 2008, 19:23

Originally posted by Asher
Didn't the Diablo devs make Hellgate?

The story goes that Mythos was intended to help test the servers for Hellgate, but that they liked the prototype so much they decided to run with it and make it a full game. So they've had a small team working on this while Hellgate was in production.

And this thing is free? Not sure I like the pay-for-littlethings model.

Like real life, it's completely free to play, but having money has its advantages. I think it's the least of many evils when it comes to bringing in money for a game.

The regular way, paying up front, is vulnerable to piracy, and the PC gaming industry industry can't rely on it for much longer. Plus, the customer has to pay the full price up front, and they tend to be more wary of lemons. So you either have to have massive marketing and immediate popularity, or you wind up in the bargain bin, and out of business.
Subscriptions work, but then you end up paying, and paying, and paying. And since you're always paying, it feels (speaking only for myself) like I have to get my money's worth, and keep playing. And that ends up making a game feel more like a job. Plus it limits how many games you can switch between freely. Like a lot of people, I like to break out old games to play for a weekend, and then put away. Subscriptions discourage that.
Donations are practical for smaller, less intensive games like Kingdom of Loathing, but even KoL gives you a Mr. Accessory for $10.
America's Army was given away by the DoD as a recruiting tool, but Mythos isn't likely to get government sponsorship.

I can't say I love the idea of micro-transactions, but I honestly can't think of a better way. What would y'all do?

**Felch** · May 19, 2008, 19:49

Originally posted by snoopy369
Dungeon Runners was a very similar game not that long ago I played in beta ... in the sense that it is Diablo-esque, with better graphics, MMO, and free for the basic game but you pay for upgrades (more room, and you had to pay to be allowed to use the rarest items). It was an ncsoft game, IIRC. (You didn't actually pay-for-littlethings, per se, but you were either a free account or a subscription fee account.)

Apparently that model works...

Was it any good?

**snoopy369** · May 19, 2008, 20:36

DR was fun while I played it, I don't have the patience for most MMOs though. It was definitely Diabloesque. Look it up on ncsoft, like I said it's free to play if you don't mind not using your rares (you can save them up and if you decide to pay, use them then).

**DrSpike** · May 20, 2008, 14:04

Can you sell them in game for in game currency, then convert that currency to real currency so that you can become a member and use the rares you have left?

**Felch** · May 20, 2008, 15:34

I'll check out DR. I'm not a committed MMOer, but I like trying them out, seeing how they work.

I liked City of Heroes/Villains, but the pace of combat in those (and WoW) is down right glacial. I prefer the fast paced slaughter of Diablo.

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