The Crysis Editor Sandbox2

[Asher]

You think Crysis' "randomness" is good. To me, it's a trait of inept game developers. I don't consider the game "random", in fact I consider it to be extremely repetitive with little in the way of game design.

I think it's merely a good FPS game, certainly not one of the best and certainly not one that will redefine the genre.

CoD4, on the other hand, is basically the pinnacle of a specific sub-genre while Crysis is simply good overall. Do you see the difference?

I'm still waiting for your answer on what Sandbox2 can do that Unreal Editor 3 or Source SDK can't do.

CoD4's replayability comes in several forms: Outstanding multiplayer (Crysis' is ****) and arcade mode. It's in this area that CoD4 has its most decisive advantage to Crysis.

[FrostyBoy]

I don't know Unreal Editor 3 or Source SDK very well; is Source SDK based on a game? How much power does the Unreal Editor give you in terms of physics?

I'm not really into multiplayer and I know that it is common for people to not like it; but I do like co-op.

I don't understand why you see Crysis as extremely repetitive, can you give examples? And are you able to prove that CoD4 is less repetitive - other than multiplayer, which btw, I find to be even more repetitive than single player, multiplayer just made it more challenging, it never made it less linear, in fact it probably made it MORE linear; I mean, what else can do you do other than kill someone? I know that is the point of FPS, but I think the majority of people would like to believe that it can be more than just killing people, probably why Half Life took off so well.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
I don't know Unreal Editor 3 or Source SDK very well; is Source SDK based on a game? How much power does the Unreal Editor give you in terms of physics?

Yeah, this is what I thought. You don't even know the two most popular game editors and here you are proclaiming Sandbox 2 to be by far the best.

Carry on.

(BTW: The secret to HL's phenomenal success was the modability of it and the proliferation of mods like Team Fortress and Counterstrike. So, it was multiplayer and Valve's game editor that gave it the edge; Valve's successor engine is "Source" by the way)

[FrostyBoy]

But if Unreal Editor is so good, why have I not heard much about it? I'm constantly checking up on stuff like this.

As for Half Life, I never modded it, I hated the mods and I never played multiplayer. For me, it was Half-Life's story that kicked the series off.

[Asher]

Originally posted by FrostyBoy
But if Unreal Editor is so good, why have I not heard much about it? I'm constantly checking up on stuff like this.

Yeah, its understandable. It's not like any real games have ever been made with it like:

# Advent Rising — (2005) GlyphX Games
# America's Army v1.0 ~ v2.8.3 — (2002~2008) U.S. Army
# America's Army:Rise of a Soldier — (2005) Ubisoft
# Brothers In Arms: Road to Hill 30 — (2005) Gearbox Software
# Brothers In Arms: Earned in Blood — (2005) Gearbox Software
# Brothers In Arms: D-Day — (2006) Gearbox Software
# Brothers In Arms: Double Time — (2008) Gearbox Software
# Close Quarters Conflict — (2007) Direct Action Games
# Combat: Task Force 121 — (2005) Direct Action Games[25][26]
# Dark Heaven On-Line - (2008) Frogster-Studios[27]
# Dead Man's Hand — (2004) Human Head Studios
# Desert Thunder — (2003) Brainbox Games
# Deus Ex: Invisible War — (2003) Ion Storm
# Devastation — (2003) Digitalo Studios
# Exteel — (2005) NCsoft[28]
# Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban — (2004) KnowWonder Digital Mediaworks[29]
# Huang Yi Online — (2007) Soft World
# Inferno — (2007) FXLabs Studios
# Jinyong Online 2 — (2005~2007) Soft World
# Kung Fu: Deadly Arts — (2006) Bedlam Games
# LandMass — (2006~2007) WayPoint
# Land of the Dead: Road to Fiddler's Green — (2005) Brainbox Games
# Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events — (2004) Adrenium Games
# Lineage II — (2002~2007) NC Soft
# Magic: The Gathering - Battlegrounds — (2003) Atari
# Magna Carta: Crimson Stigmata — (2004) Softmax
# Magna Carta Portable — (2006) Softmax
# Marine Heavy Gunner: Vietnam — (2004) Brainbox Games
# Marine Sharpshooter 3 — (2007) Groove Games
# Men of Valor — (2004) Vivendi Universal
# Open Season — Ubisoft
# Pariah — (2005) Digital Extremes[30][31]
# Postal² — (2003) Running With Scissors, Inc.
# Priston Tale 2 — (2006~2007) Yedang Online
# Ragnacraft (MMORPG) — (2004) TearDust
# Ragnarok Online 2: The Gate of the World (MMORPG) — (2007) Gravity
# Redneck Kentucky and The Next Generation Chickens — (2007) City Interactive
# Red Steel — (2006) Ubisoft
# Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 — (2006) Tripwire Interactive[32][33]
# Redneck Kentucky and the Next Generation Chickens - (2007) City Interactive
# new Samba de Amigo — (2008) Gearbox Software
# San Guo Online — (2007) Kingsoft
# Sephiroth — (2001~2007) IMagic Entertainment
# Shadow Ops: Red Mercury — (2004) Zombie Studios
# Shark Tale — (2004) Amaze Entertainment
# Shrek 2 — (2004) KnowWonder
# Spider-Man 2 — (2004) Fizz Factor
# Star Wars: Republic Commando — (2005) LucasArts[34][35]
# StoneAge2 — (2007) Kingsoft
# Surf's Up — (2007) Ubisoft
# SWAT 4 — (2005) Irrational Games[36]
# The Chronicles of Spellborn — (2006~2007) Spellborn International
# The Regiment — (2006) Kuju Entertainment
# Thief: Deadly Shadows — (2004) Ion Storm
# Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword — (2004) Ubisoft[37]
# Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow (Xbox only) — (2004) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield — (2003) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell — (2002) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow — (2004) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory — (2005) Ubisoft[38]
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent — (2006) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Essentials — (2006) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction - (2008) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon 2 — (2006) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter — (2006) Ubisoft
# Tribes: Vengeance — (2004) Irrational Games
# Unreal II: The Awakening — (2003) Legend Entertainment
# Unreal Championship — (2002) Digital Extremes
# Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict — (2005) Epic Games
# Unreal Tournament 2003 — (2002) Digital Extremes
# Unreal Tournament 2004 — (2004) Digital Extremes
# Vanguard: Saga of Heroes — (2007) Sigil Games Online
# World War II Combat: Road to Berlin — (2005) Direct Action Games
# World War II Combat: Iwo Jima — (2006) Direct Action Games[39]
# Warpath — (2006) Digital Extremes[40]
# XIII — (2003) Ubisoft

# A4 (sequel to A3) - (2009) AniPark
# Aliens — (Late 2008) Gearbox Software
# America's Army 3.0 — (2008) US Army
# American Mcgee's Grimm - (2008) Spicy Horse
# APB — (2008) Webzen
# Alliance of Valiant Arms - (2007) Pmang
# Black College Football: BCFX: The Xperience - (2007) Nerjyzed Entertainment
# Black Powder Red Earth - (2007) Echelon Software
# Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway — (2008) Gearbox Software[41]
# BioShock - (2007) 2K Boston/2K Australia
# BlackSite: Area 51 — (2007) Midway Austin
# Blitz - (2008) CJIG
# Borderlands - (2008) Gearbox Software
# Crimecraft - (2008) Vogster Entertainment
# Damnation - (2008) Blue Omega / Point of View
# DC Comics MMO — (TBA) Sony Online Entertainment
# Earth No More — (2009) Recoil Games / 3D Realms
# Empire - (TBA) Chair Entertainment
# Ender's Game — (TBA) Chair Entertainment
# Elveon — (2007) 10tacle Studios[42]
# End - (TBA) Faramix Enterprises[43]
# Fatal Inertia — (2007) Koei[44]
# Free Realm - (TBA) Sony Online Entertainment
# Frontlines: Fuel of War — (2008) Kaos Studios
# Fury — (2007) Auran[45]
# Gears of War — (2006) Epic Games
# Gears of War 2 — (2008) Epic Games
# Global Agenda — (TBA) Hi-Rez Studios[46]
# Hail to the Chimp — (2008) Wideload Games [47]
# Halo Wars — (TBA 2008) Ensemble Studios
# Highlander: The Game — (TBA 2008) TBA
# Hei$t - (2007) inXile Entertainment
# Hour of Victory — (2007) Midway Games
# Huxley — (2008) Webzen Games[48]
# Interstellar Marines - (2008) Zero Point Software [49]
# Lost Odyssey — (2007) Mistwalker[50]
# Mass Effect — (2007) BioWare[51]
# Magna Carta 2 - (TBA) Softmax
# Medal of Honor: Airborne — (2007) Electronic Arts[52]
# Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia — (2007) Artificial Studios[53]
# Mortal Kombat 8 - (2008) Midway
# Parabellum - (2008) Acony
# Project Georgia - (TBA) Obsidian Entertainment
# Project M - (TBA) NC Soft
# Red Steel sequel - (TBA) Ubisoft
# Robert Ludlum's The Bourne Conspiracy - (2008) High Moon Studios
# RoboBlitz — (2006) Naked Sky Entertainment[54]
# Rogue Warrior: Black Razor - (2007) Bethesda Softworks
# Section 8 (2009) Timegate Studios
# Sephiroth 2 - (TBA) IMagic Entertainment
# Sin City - (TBA) Transmission Games / RedMile Entertainment[55]
# Stargate Worlds — (2007) Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment[56]
# Stranglehold — (2007) Midway Chicago[57]
# The Agency - (2008) Sony Online Entertainment
# The Last Remnant — (2008) Square Enix
# The Scourge Project — (N/A) Tragnarion Studios
# Tiberium — (TBA) Electronic Arts[58]
# TNA iMPACT! - (2008) Midway Games / Point of View
# To End All Wars — (2008) Kuju Entertainment [59] [60]
# Tom Clancy's EndWar — (2008) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas - (2006) Ubisoft
# Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2 - (2008) Ubisoft
# Turning Point: Fall of Liberty — (2008) Spark Unlimited
# Turok — (2008) Propaganda Games
# Undertow — (2007) Chair Entertainment
# Unreal Tournament 3 — (2007) Epic Games
# The Wheelman — (2008) Midway Games
# Warmonger - (2008) NetDevil

[FrostyBoy]

I think you kinda missed my point.

[Asher]

Nope. You kinda missed the point.

The vast majority of these licensees are not "source code licensees". They build it all using UnrealEd and the suite of tools it comes with. Games from JRPGs to WRPGs to 1st person shooters to stealth 3rd person games to adventure games to 2D sidescrolling games, etc.

[FrostyBoy]

Hm, I still think you missed my point. Again, my point of this thread was the ease of use of the editor, I have used other editors before, but this is the first time an editor has been truly easy to use. Doing some quick research just now, I found that you are right, UnrealEd is a popular editor, but some have said that Sandbox2, is easier to use than UnrealEd, and that might be why there is a sudden jump for Sandbox2 within the mod community.

UnrealEd does sound like a great editor, and it must be powerful in order to create that list of games, but I might assume that it is not that easy to use, nor is the physics and graphics engine up to par with Crytek's. I believe, despite the numbers, that Sandbox2 has the edge over UnrealEd and I wouldn't be surprised if modders using UnrealEd switch over to Sandbox2.

Crytek seem to really push the limit and are not afraid to attempt new things, I think their reputation will succeed them and not hopefully, but likely, Sandbox3 will blow us away, leaving UnrealEd behind, I say with some confidence because I really haven't seen anything mind-blowing from UnrealEd.

[Asher]

Actually, Unreal's physics (done with Havok) seem to be more advanced than Crytek's. I don't see soft-body physics as supported in Cryengine2. In fact, the only engine it's supported in is Unreal Engine 3.

And I would definitely be surprised if UE3 modders jumped to Cryengine2. For starters, the graphics engine is a beast and inefficiently programmed. It's not a mass market engine, on lower settings it still runs like **** and looks worse than games with 2-3x the framerate. There's a whole bunch of plugins for every artistic program under the sun for UE3, it's far more mature and well-documented as well.

Crytek has a history of producing stunning looking games with shallow gameplay, and even though the graphics are pretty no one ends up licensing the engines for use -- instead, opting for Unreal Engine mostly.

Make no mistake, Crytek is playing catch up here. Sandbox2 may be a huge improvement, but from what I see it's still far from being UnrealEd-calibre.

[Colonâ„¢]

*nearly chokes on the implied assertion Far Cry has shallow gameplay*

[MattSimpson]

Originally posted by Asher

The vast majority of these licensees are not "source code licensees". They build it all using UnrealEd and the suite of tools it comes with.

That's very interesting. Do you have a source for that?

The list of games made, or being made, with Unreal was interesting too. Where did you find that info?

I'm trying to decide which engine/editor to learn at the moment (Sandbox2, Unreal 3 or Source) so the more information I can get the better.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MattSimpson


That's very interesting. Do you have a source for that?

The list of games made, or being made, with Unreal was interesting too. Where did you find that info?

I'm trying to decide which engine/editor to learn at the moment (Sandbox2, Unreal 3 or Source) so the more information I can get the better.

List of games/apps using Unreal Engine is on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...l_Engine_games

I don't have any source specifically for them using UnrealEd and the associated tools vs sourcecode, but I think Silicon Knights' lawsuit reveals some of those details.