Console Wars II

[asleepathewheel]

The graphics are better than the wiis, but frankly I find them to be a letdown. I was expecting much more considering how powerful the system is.

The turning point for me was the final boss in bioshock. http://youtube.com/watch?v=nrP_FQXFJMw
That was the point that I was let down by the system.



I find the 360 (gamewise) to basically be what was around last generation, which is boring to me. Sure it looks prettier on my tv, on certain games, but whoopetydoo. The controller is basically the same, Dual analog, that's been around for 10 years, the xbox design a bit less. For the most part, they're the same games that were around 10 years ago, but with less jaggies and more enemies on screen. I want new gameplay, which is what I find in the wii. Sure some devs aren't getting the controls right yet, (mainly due to shoehorning them into a game/port) but it works well enough for me if done correctly. Certain genres don't translate well to it, like fighting or some sports, so its good to have the 360 option available, but for most I'll take the more interesting gesture, pointer controls over graphics that aren't that much of a step up. If the character graphics are already not intended to be realistic, then I don't care if they are only at a last gen level-looks wise. Frankly a lot of 360 games that I've tried that are supposed to have realistic looking characters and don't come close to achieving that, though are closer than the wii's.

I've been around a long long time. I remember jumping from Atari/Intellivision to the NES. And from the Nes to the SNES and so on. Each time there were new ways to do things, new buttons to give different commands. This time, save the wii, not so so much, its just the same old controller in a slightly different form. Sure the dual analog has been refined, and refined, and refined again, but there's just no revolution there, its just rather stale. Hit or miss, the wii is at least trying something different. Games it misses on, are just horrible, but when it hits, the result is pure unadulterated child like joy, that I just don't get much on the 360.

Just my .02.

[Kuciwalker]

I want new gameplay, which is what I find in the wii.

Easy online cooperative multiplayer isn't new gameplay?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

I want new gameplay, which is what I find in the wii.

Easy online cooperative multiplayer isn't new gameplay?

The online aspect yes, but cooperative multiplayer has been around a long time, of course. I don't personally like playing games online, I prefer against someone on the same couch, I'm too old fashioned I guess, in that respect. I like that its there for people who like that kind of thing, I just don't. Clearly the 360 is superior to the Wii in online play in anything but price.

[Kuciwalker]

The online aspect yes, but cooperative multiplayer has been around a long time, of course. I don't personally like playing games online, I prefer against someone on the same couch, I'm too old fashioned I guess, in that respect.

So basically, you've discounted one of the most important, fun innovations of the 360 (the whole online ecosystem) because you don't enjoy that type of gaming...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

The online aspect yes, but cooperative multiplayer has been around a long time, of course. I don't personally like playing games online, I prefer against someone on the same couch, I'm too old fashioned I guess, in that respect.

So basically, you've discounted one of the most important, fun innovations of the 360 (the whole online ecosystem) because you don't enjoy that type of gaming...

I don't think online gameplay is inherently important to gameplay, no.

Its not important to me, anyway. I have no idea what is important to other people wrt video game playing, I just know what I want. Clearly that is the case, based on earlier discussions here I'm happy for you and others that find what they need in such a system, but it adds no value for me.

And I know how much fun cooperative gameplay can be, afterall I cut my teeth on Contra and lifeforce.

Look at my next must buys-
1. Galaxy
2. Mass Effect
3. Wii Fit (for curiosity's sake)
4. Brawl?
5. MKart Wii

(and others that depend on reviews) (also, oddly none are reliant on the wiimote )
All are either purely sp or in MK's case, I prefer to play next to my competitor on my couch.

And I can't wait to get ahold of the Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy remakes on the DS

I'm an SP guy, what can I say. I think its cause I like controlled gaming environments, I have too much chaos and competition at work, that I don't need to get it from a game. Control freak, maybe.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think online gameplay is inherently important to gameplay, no.

And that's absurd, so we have no more to discuss. You can go off and play in your own little world now...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

I don't think online gameplay is inherently important to gameplay, no.

And that's absurd, so we have no more to discuss. You can go off and play in your own little world now...

Can we still be friends (on live), even if i have absurd outdated notions on games?

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Nikolai
I have many dreams in my life, but getting a man in my behind is not one of them.

Sig. material.

[Asher]

To say the 360 hasn't done anything to improve gaming is patently absurd.

In areas where it matters -- like online integration, which is increasingly important as many games are inherently SOCIAL these days -- the 360 is far and away #1. The Wii may be only six years behind in the graphics department, but it's about 8 years behind in processing power and 10 years behind in its online integration -- SegaNET was better.

People are also not even discussing Xbox Live Arcade. A huge innovation in games that Sony and Nintendo are now trying to copy as well. Not to mention XNA Studio, which allows people to create their own Xbox Live Arcade games without having to worry about graphics engines or technical infrastructure like network code, sound code, etc. The end result is a flood of cheap games on a downloadable marketplace. That alone is a huge innovation.

What has the Wii brought to the gaming community? A rehash of a control scheme already abandoned by other companies in gyroscopic motion control. They took the gyroscopes and added an inaccurate IR device to it, and suddenly it's a REVOLUTION. (But it's not).

The only thing that the Wii has done is brilliantly market the Wii to people who don't know any better, or what Nintendo calls "expanding the market". Publishers also see the wildly ignorant market, and capitalize on this with shoestring budget crap shovelware games for Wii releases and big-budget 360 releases. Unfortunately for Nintendo, it only works the first time -- once the buy the Wii they don't buy anything else for it, and I'm sure these people who feel burned by the Wii won't be buying Wii 2s.

As for your comments on the 360's graphics, asleep -- are you playing on an SDTV?

[snoopy369]

I think (without owning a Wii) that regardless of the success or failure of the control system from a technical standpoint, that it is an important innovation because they took the chance and made a change. Most innovation is stifled by the fact that nobody will take the chance. It's so much safer to do it the way that we know works (and cheaper, too!). Sony's PS2 had a good controller, and so we've used nothing but that since. Nintendo took a chance and said, "Bah, let's try something new" ... even if it is not perfect - and from what I hear it's certainly not - crossing that line is very important, because it makes it more likely that someone else will do the same, and make a REALLY successful, new controller.

The Xbox360's online gameplay certainly is a great innovation, and I'd say also good for that same reason (of pushing boundaries) - but it was much 'safer'. I have to doubt anyone in MS' studios stood up and said, "No way that will work, it's way too risky to try adding cooperative online gameplay". Hopefully they listen to the success the Wii is having - even if it's temporary success, which is yet to be seen - and perhaps make their own, better, pointer controller - or something entirely different yet.

[Asher]

snoopy: While you don't think online play was risky, it was very risky. It costs a lot of money to build up online infrastructure like XBL. Capital costs for setting up XBL were over $1B -- certainly far more than it cost Nintendo to license existing technology and buy the $1 gyro chips in the Wiimotes. They also didn't exactly have much to lose, with the Gamecube being a certifiable bomb.

In fact, the reason Nintendo gave for not having online play on the Cube was they weren't sure it was viable.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Asher
As for your comments on the 360's graphics, asleep -- are you playing on an SDTV?

50" 1080p even using HDMI cables

[Asher]

Then how are your eyes?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Asher
They also didn't exactly have much to lose, with the Gamecube being a certifiable bomb.

Except for their company, as there are no divisions to bail out their games sector if things go bad.

They could have chosen a safer route, something slightly less powerful than the other 2 consoles, and slightly cheaper, with initial losses up front and then profits at the end, and had cube2 levels of performance, but instead they went all in. Had the wii flopped, it would have been the end of their console business, they would have become handheld only (not that you wouldmind that ) which would then increasingly become a target by newcomers.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Asher
Then how are your eyes?

eh, could be better, I'm thinking lasik in the near future.

I can tell the difference in graphics, they just aren't as vast as I expected. Look at the bioshock boss I linked to, or not, since it is a spoiler. Terrible looking.