Console Wars II

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Asher

Do you not think?

You want a link that says consoles that just come out will absolutely cure a chronic problem? And this would be backed by "evidence"? Please. Think. Pleaaasse.

I do believe I mentioned I thought it too soon to know for sure, and that I wouldn't expect that info out yet. I do expect it to come out at some point.

But thank you for admitting that you're statements that it is categorically fixed cannot be proven yet. Therefore, by default, the answer to the question of whether the RROD is fixed is "we don't really know yet", by default.

It most certainly is. You want MS to make a press release to reiterate quality problems with the product that most people have forgotten about, and intelligent people already know has been addressed.

This is incomprehensibly stupid. It'd be BAD PR, because it'll bring the issues back into the public mind. It'd be INEFFECTIVE PR because people will say "of course MS says it is, but we can't trust them!"

Maybe. There's also folks, like me, who are refusing to go anywhere near the damn things until they know whether the issue is solved or not.

Call me crazy, I do work in a business that has differing philosophies with reguards to PR. We would make such an announcement that an issue was fixed.

You're asking for evidence that the new CPUs, motherboards, and cooling devices will reduce temperatures. This evidence is already out there. Whether you can connect the dots between low thermal envelopes with the known cause of the RRoD being excessive heat causing a warped MB/CPU socket is purely an exercise in the reader's intelligence. There's no link for that, but there are links showing the Falcon 360s are cooler, less power hungry, and have better cooling. A smart person can contrast this with the cause of the RRoD problems.

I'm not asking whether the new ones are cooler, less power hungry, or have better cooling than the old ones. Not asking that at all. I'm asking whether they are COOL ENOUGH. I don't know the breaking point temperature that's going to cause failure. AFAIK, that's never been put out anywhere. Show me THAT link, then you can quote running temperatures all you want as evidence that anyone should be able to connect the dots. Until we either can confirm they are under the problem temp, or enough evidence comes back that it's no longer an issue, whether RROD has been fixed is still a very valid question.

At least it is for my $300+.

Are the new ones less likely to have the problem? Categorically yes.

Do we know whether it's fixed or not? No.


And, it doesn't hurt to at least try to be a little nicer, btw. Mocking others is really beneath you.

[Asher]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Maybe. There's also folks, like me, who are refusing to go anywhere near the damn things until they know whether the issue is solved or not.

I think you're being very silly, or you're ignorant.

Red ring errors cost you precisely $0 to repair if they do happen. All signs point to it being fixed in Falcon. It can't be 100% guaranteed, which is apparently what you want. MS won't say it's fixed, because that's inviting a lawsuit in the case it does happen at some point.

I'm not asking whether the new ones are cooler, less power hungry, or have better cooling than the old ones. Not asking that at all. I'm asking whether they are COOL ENOUGH. I don't know the breaking point temperature that's going to cause failure. AFAIK, that's never been put out anywhere. Show me THAT link, then you can quote running temperatures all you want as evidence that anyone should be able to connect the dots.

Again, I cannot reiterate how stupid it is to ask for "THAT link". It shows a complete lack of common sense, understanding of business, and reasoning. There will never be "that link", so you'll be waiting forever. Something tells me that doesn't bother you. It's just a convenient excuse.

And, it doesn't hurt to at least try to be a little nicer, btw. Mocking others is really beneath you.

If you're nice to people, they keep coming back.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

I think you're being very silly, or you're ignorant.

Red ring errors cost you precisely $0 to repair if they do happen. All signs point to it being fixed in Falcon. It can't be 100% guaranteed, which is apparently what you want. MS won't say it's fixed, because that's inviting a lawsuit in the case it does happen at some point.


Again, I cannot reiterate how stupid it is to ask for "THAT link". It shows a complete lack of common sense, understanding of business, and reasoning. There will never be "that link", so you'll be waiting forever. Something tells me that doesn't bother you. It's just a convenient excuse.

You know it doesnt have to be a link to something by MS, it could be to a thread in one of the hardware geek forums, where undoubtedly something like this has been discussed already.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
You know it doesnt have to be a link to something by MS, it could be to a thread in one of the hardware geek forums, where undoubtedly something like this has been discussed already.

Why do so many people have so many problems with such a simple concept?

It is inherently impossible to provide evidence that this without-a-doubt 100% "fixed" without waiting two years and hacking into MS' systems for reliability comparisons.

What we have to do in the meantime is:
1) Understand the problem (we know the problem)
2) Understand the measures to fix the problem (we know this was done in Falcon)
3) Observe reactions so far, which is that Falcon Xboxes have no glaring flaws unless you can prove otherwise

It's so simple.

[Asher]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Short term, it's $10 more than a standard game. For a camera I can rig up become some sort of security camera for Halloween night, if no other games ever come of it. Long term, it's no more than him spending his money on Pokemon or Yugioh cards, except he'll have people to actually PLAY with.

Eye of Judgment sold 13,000 copies in all of the USA so far. I'm not sure he'd have a whole lot of people to play with.

[Krill]

Anyone played Burnout 3 on the Xbox 360?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Asher

I think you're being very silly, or you're ignorant.

Red ring errors cost you precisely $0 to repair if they do happen.

They cost me time and hassle.

All signs point to it being fixed in Falcon. It can't be 100% guaranteed, which is apparently what you want. MS won't say it's fixed, because that's inviting a lawsuit in the case it does happen at some point.

I don't expect a "100% fixed". But 1/3 chance (or whatever the actual numbers ended up being) your $300 unit is going to have to be sent for repair IS unacceptable to me. Any numbers showing a significant decrease would be great. 100% never happens.

And with all the fuss over the original RROD, I find it hard to believe no one is ever going to make the comparison on failure rates of the falcon.

And yes, I'm a rather patient person. I didn't buy the 360 off the get go because of rumors of bugs. Didn't buy it later because of the RROD. Avoided the PS3 at launch for similar reasons. Shied away from the Wii because Nintendo has a horrible track record with 3rd party games on their consoles. I've been here in this forum posting for a year now, gathering info on the new systems, before I go about buying.

Yes. I'm very patient and wait before I decide to buy a console. Been screwed once too often.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Asher

Why do so many people have so many problems with such a simple concept?

It is inherently impossible to provide evidence that this without-a-doubt 100% "fixed" without waiting two years and hacking into MS' systems for reliability comparisons.

What we have to do in the meantime is:
1) Understand the problem (we know the problem)
2) Understand the measures to fix the problem (we know this was done in Falcon)
3) Observe reactions so far, which is that Falcon Xboxes have no glaring flaws unless you can prove otherwise

It's so simple.

OK, maybe it was a bit naive (or, retarded, as you like to say) to ask to provide evidence that the problem has been definively fixed. But is it too much to ask for some evidence that things are getting better, that we're at least progressing toward a solution? And you gave some.

(A) Evidence that we know what is the cause of problem. You're confident that we do. I had heard about the CPU popping out of the socket before, but to me it was just an hypothesis among many. I wasn't aware that it was the main cause. I suppose it would retarded of me to ask a link on this, so I won't.

(B) Evidence that Microsoft has taken measures to fix the problem. The epoxy, the improved heatsinks and the smaller CPU's seem to be a good solution, or at least a good start (the next step being the GPU). No need for links, thank you very much.

(C) Maybe I'm being overly cautious, but it would also be nice to have evidence that all this payed off, that things are indeed getting better. Now that I think about it, its probably too soon to ask at this point (I'm not even sure we have Falcon's yet in Canada), but I don't see how asking the question would be retarded, as you're so fond of saying. Maybe we'll have a better idea one year from now. And, no, we won't need to hack in Microsoft files to do so. After all, we have a good idea that the failure rates are currently sky high and nobody hacked in Microsoft records, AFAIK.

[Asher]

Buy an Xbox 360 before Dec 21st, get Halo 3 for free: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/835/835896p1.html

That's pretty amazing. Marvel Ultimate Alliance + Forza 2 + Halo 3, all full games, with the purchase of an Xbox 360...

[Wiglaf]

Or get a blu ray player and game console for only $400. it's close since the halo 3 deal requires a $50 live signup too..

DanQ

[UnOrthOdOx]

Update: This morning, Xbox.com was advertising this initiative on its Halo 3 Deals & Promotions page. By this afternoon, however, the page was gone. This link to the promotion's registration page still works, though. We've contacted Microsoft for clarification on the deal, and we'll let you know more as soon as possible.

Is there some other way of registering on xbox live other than plugging the thing in before xmas? Otherwise, the date is kinda odd for this time of year.

Too bad I'm not interested in any of the games listed.

Don't do shooters.

Forza is a racer? Meh.

Well, Ultimate alliance was a fun rental, sure. I wouldn't mind having it around, but by no means is it going to motivate me to buy.

I suppose I could trade them in for something I would be interested in though.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asher
Buy an Xbox 360 before Dec 21st, get Halo 3 for free: http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/835/835896p1.html

That's pretty amazing. Marvel Ultimate Alliance + Forza 2 + Halo 3, all full games, with the purchase of an Xbox 360...

Pretty amazing deals available here too - they should sell a lot this Christmas.

But all the stories in the media are about the Wii shortages.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Krill
Anyone played Burnout 3 on the Xbox 360?

Briefly - you'd be better off getting Forza2 I think.

[Krill]

I don't want it for the racing; I want it for the spectacular crashes...

[DrSpike]

Well then you'll probably like it.