Console Wars II

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
I imagine your the only one here that would be saying the Wii has no demand.

Yes, you did imagine that because that was never said and is a completely ridiculous comment in any case.

LOTM: Can you tell your friend here to go away unless he wants to bring his thinking cap?

This biased fanboy has not one, but two Wiis in his apartment and is getting Galaxy tomorrow and already owns 6 Wii games as well. The thing is, out of all 3 of my consoles, two of them make me pissed off that I spent money on them so far. Don't get pissed when I rant about it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, you did imagine that because that was never said and is a completely ridiculous comment in any case.

LOTM: Can you tell your friend here to go away unless he wants to bring his thinking cap?

This biased fanboy has not one, but two Wiis in his apartment and is getting Galaxy tomorrow and already owns 6 Wii games as well. The thing is, out of all 3 of my consoles, two of them make me pissed off that I spent money on them so far. Don't get pissed when I rant about it.

You know, its kind of silly that whenever someone calls you a fanboy you quote all the platforms you own. Its quite possible for someone to be, say, a convertible fanboy and also own an SUV. And, IIRC, you said you mainly got the Wii and the PS3 cause your SO likes the games on them - do I misremember? And you also mention owning a high end PC, but IIRC the only gaming you do on that is WOW, right? You just arent the kind of person whod have a budget PC even if you never played a single game on it.

Which doesnt prove that you ARE a fanboy, of course. Whether one is or not, has to do with the content of ones posts, not what one owns.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, you did imagine that because that was never said and is a completely ridiculous comment in any case.

LOTM: Can you tell your friend here to go away unless he wants to bring his thinking cap?

Kat - Asher never said there is no demand for the Wii. He stated that my link does not prove that the market clearing price for a second hand Wii is above the MSRP, and in that he is correct. He seemed to imply that he also believes that the market clearing price of a second hand Wii is not above the MSRP, and there I think he may be incorrect - my further perusal of CL ads for my area shows ALL of the Wii ads list above MSRP, and Spike seems to suggest thats true of the UK as well.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
You know, its kind of silly that whenever someone calls you a fanboy you quote all the platforms you own. Its quite possible for someone to be, say, a convertible fanboy and also own an SUV. And, IIRC, you said you mainly got the Wii and the PS3 cause your SO likes the games on them - do I misremember? And you also mention owning a high end PC, but IIRC the only gaming you do on that is WOW, right? You just arent the kind of person whod have a budget PC even if you never played a single game on it.

WTF are you talking about?

I haven't played WoW in about 1.5 years. Lately on my PC, I've played Crysis (demo), Lord of the Rings Online, Orange Box (including tons of TF2), Overlord, Flight Simulator X and some NWN 2. I'm getting COD4 shortly.

If you don't know, many of those games are available on the 360 as well. I choose to play them on the PC, for various reasons.

I've got all of the consoles because inevitably there's a game I like on any of them. Galaxy looks good, I'm getting that tomorrow for instance.

The simple fact is -- as someone who owns all of the consoles and platforms, and uses all of them I'm not predispose to certain fanboyisms that plague other people. Be it that they can't afford a gaming PC or they can't afford all of the consoles, it doesn't matter. I don't have any sway in how each performs, because I can always get any game that comes out -- so if games stop being 360 exclusive I still can play on PS3/PC, for instance.

But the simple fact is, of all of the gaming platforms out right now, there's one console that is far and away the best for games right now. You can dismiss such arguments as those of a "fanboy", but it's the absolute truth. The 360's software library right now is just incredible. I'm still way behind on games, and Assassin's Creed comes out tomorrow and Mass Effect the week after.

The other platforms -- they all have the odd game, but in terms of sheer quantity of great games they leave a lot to be desired.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Allow me to redirect this thread for a bit, as I need some info on all the consoles.

As some of you may have noted, I've been commenting for some time that we have planned on getting a next gen system for xmas. And, that decision is fast coming up on us.

So, our feelings on each:

The Xbox:

HAS the failure thing actually been solved? There seems so much conflicting info on that right now. This is a big huge major concern, frankly.

Are there any good games rated E? Seriously. I know lego starwars is out, but we already have the other two and that's just a rehash. Even "T" is possible, depending on what it's rated that for.

Online....

I'm just going to assume 90% of the people are *******s, like with any game you play online. What kind of parental blocks are in place on Xbox Live? Is all chatting done via one of the headset doodads? Can you turn those off, are they needed? Language filters, etc. What's out there?

Wii:

I'm so totally not sold on the Wii. My father in law has one. I plain just don't get it. One of the things I do play on consoles is Madden...and I really do not like the Wii's control for that.

There is NOTHING coming out there I would be interested in. However, there are tons of games geared towards the kids. And my wife has always been a fan of Mario games.

PS3:

The recent price cut has my wife leaning this direction, because she's wanting to utilize the blue ray player. My colorblind ass could really care less about highdef movies. Then there was that failure rumore on the new pricecut models...

Ratchet and Clank just came out or is coming out or something, and is getting great reviews. Other than that, like the Xbox, there's not a whole heck of a lot I'm seeing out there for the kids. (crappy movie-tie-in games not counting)

There's that wierdo camera with the card game thing my older son might REALLY like (considering he's always trying to find someone to play him yugioh(sp?) or Pokemon but none of his friends want to actually PLAY, just collect). But, he'ld have no-one locally to play with, which means going online.

And...that brings up the same parental control question for the PS3.

Basically, is there any kind of controls while playing with others, or are we going to be better off just not letting our kids play online, and only use the respective stores of each system to download stuff?

[Asher]

Some details on the Xbox 360's Fall dashboard update:

The Fall Xbox 360 dashboard update has been revealed to our colleagues at OXM from Microsoft and it's looking very good indeed with gaming classics and films on demand.

December 4 is the date you'll need to watch out for; that's the day you'll be able to download and play Halo. Yes, Halo as in the Xbox game, through Marketplace, on your Xbox 360.

Microsoft is introducing games it has published for the original Xbox on XBL Marketplace, with the eventual plan to bring as much of the back catalogue across as possible.

Games cost about 1200 Microsoft points (about ten quid), which according to us puts them a little over what you'd pay for them second hand.

The initial list of downloads includes Halo, Fable, Fahrenheit, Crimson Skies: High Road To Revenge, Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath Of Cortex and Burnout 3. All good then, apart from maybe Crash.

And if that wasn't enough, films on demand, though not confirmed for the December 4 date, aren't far away. Studios such as Warner Bros are potentially lined up for the service, so we can look forward to films such as The Dark Knight, The Assassination of Jesse James and I Am Legend appearing eventually.

Films will cost less than a fiver and come in 720p resolution. You have 14 days to start watching a film once it has downloaded. Once you started watching a film, you have 24 hours to finish it. After that, the film deletes itself from your hard drive. It's basically an online rental service then, like the US Video Marketplace.

[Asher]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
The Xbox:

HAS the failure thing actually been solved? There seems so much conflicting info on that right now. This is a big huge major concern, frankly.

Yes.

Are there any good games rated E? Seriously. I know lego starwars is out, but we already have the other two and that's just a rehash. Even "T" is possible, depending on what it's rated that for.

Online....

I'm just going to assume 90% of the people are *******s, like with any game you play online. What kind of parental blocks are in place on Xbox Live? Is all chatting done via one of the headset doodads? Can you turn those off, are they needed? Language filters, etc. What's out there?

There are different "zones". If you choose the "Family" zone you're pretty much guaranteed to be placed in the online pool of kids+parents rather than teenagers. Teenagers and the like are typically in the "Underground" zone or something similar.

You can control the friends list they have (and then make it so they can only play with people on that list if you wish), controls which games they play (eg, it'll only play G or T-rated games and/or G, PG, or PG-13 movies...you can customize this). Starting in December you can even set a daily time limit for its use.

More info here: http://www.microsoft.com/protect/pro...360family.mspx

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/familysettings/console/xbox360/consolefamilysettings.htm

As for censorship -- all chat is done via voice. Obviously there is no censorship for that.

As for G or T games (other than sports and racing, of which there's lots):

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/v/vivapinata/

http://narutoxbox360game.uk.ubi.com/

There's 304 "E" for everyone or "T" for teen games on the 360. You can search using this page: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

The recent price cut has my wife leaning this direction, because she's wanting to utilize the blue ray player. My colorblind ass could really care less about highdef movies. Then there was that failure rumore on the new pricecut models...

Why bluray? You can get the HD DVD player addon for the 360 as well, I don't see this as a reason to get the PS3.

Ratchet and Clank just came out or is coming out or something, and is getting great reviews. Other than that, like the Xbox, there's not a whole heck of a lot I'm seeing out there for the kids. (crappy movie-tie-in games not counting)

R&C is up to taste -- personally I played the demo, and I still "don't get it" and don't enjoy it.

PS3, software wise, isn't looking good. The 360 has more games, has more games in development, and almost always has the best game version of the two.

There's that wierdo camera with the card game thing my older son might REALLY like (considering he's always trying to find someone to play him yugioh(sp?) or Pokemon but none of his friends want to actually PLAY, just collect). But, he'ld have no-one locally to play with, which means going online.

That's a very pricey game, short and long-term.

And...that brings up the same parental control question for the PS3.

Basically, is there any kind of controls while playing with others, or are we going to be better off just not letting our kids play online, and only use the respective stores of each system to download stuff?

Letting the kids play online is fine, provided you can monitor who they play with.

I'm not really sure what the PS3 has, parental control wise. Their site's documentation is pathetic, so I wouldn't have high hopes: http://uk.playstation.com/help-suppo...AYSTATION-3/?/

Also, considering their online implementation is inconsistent from game to game and there's no unified friends list, etc. it can be quite challenging to control content.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes.

Are you sure? I've heard nothing since Microsoft admitted publicly that the 360 was a POS. I know the 65nm 360's are out, but I haven't heard a peep about failure rates.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes.

....ok?

There are different "zones". If you choose the "Family" zone you're pretty much guaranteed to be placed in the online pool of kids+parents rather than teenagers. Teenagers and the like are typically in the "Underground" zone or something similar.

You can control the friends list they have (and then make it so they can only play with people on that list if you wish), controls which games they play (eg, it'll only play G or T-rated games and/or G, PG, or PG-13 movies...you can customize this). Starting in December you can even set a daily time limit for its use.

More info here: http://www.microsoft.com/protect/pro...360family.mspx

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/familysettings/console/xbox360/consolefamilysettings.htm

As for censorship -- all chat is done via voice. Obviously there is no censorship for that.

Thanks, just what I was looking for.

As for G or T games (other than sports and racing, of which there's lots):

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/v/vivapinata/

http://narutoxbox360game.uk.ubi.com/

There's 304 "E" for everyone or "T" for teen games on the 360. You can search using this page: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

Thanks for the links. But, other than sports games, racing games, and popcap games the xbox apparantly lets you download, that list was rather thin. I'll have to dissect it later.

Why bluray? You can get the HD DVD player addon for the 360 as well, I don't see this as a reason to get the PS3.

I dunno. I can't tell much difference between high def or standard def anyway.

R&C is up to taste -- personally I played the demo, and I still "don't get it" and don't enjoy it.

PS3, software wise, isn't looking good. The 360 has more games, has more games in development, and almost always has the best game version of the two.

Meh. Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts. Sure, they MIGHT make it to the xbox. They likely will make it to the PS3. And chances are sell a few in the process.

That's a very pricey game, short and long-term.

Short term, it's $10 more than a standard game. For a camera I can rig up become some sort of security camera for Halloween night, if no other games ever come of it. Long term, it's no more than him spending his money on Pokemon or Yugioh cards, except he'll have people to actually PLAY with.

Letting the kids play online is fine, provided you can monitor who they play with.

I'm not really sure what the PS3 has, parental control wise. Their site's documentation is pathetic, so I wouldn't have high hopes: http://uk.playstation.com/help-suppo...AYSTATION-3/?/

Also, considering their online implementation is inconsistent from game to game and there's no unified friends list, etc. it can be quite challenging to control content.

Thanks again for the input, it's been most helpfull.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Nostromo


Are you sure? I've heard nothing since Microsoft admitted publicly that the 360 was a POS. I know the 65nm 360's are out, but I haven't heard a peep about failure rates.

Yes, the design flaw was corrected a while ago on the late-model 90nm chips.

[Asher]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Thanks for the links. But, other than sports games, racing games, and popcap games the xbox apparantly lets you download, that list was rather thin. I'll have to dissect it later.

There's lots, including a couple JRPGs like Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Enchanted Arms.

Meh. Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts. Sure, they MIGHT make it to the xbox. They likely will make it to the PS3. And chances are sell a few in the process.

Again, it's all up to taste. I wasn't aware kids these days still enjoy pseudo-game movies like FF and KH.

If you're a FF nut or your kids are, then obviously the PS3 is the place to be. But I'd be a bit unsure of ditching tons of quality games just to play the latest derivative FF movies.

[Nostromo]

Originally posted by Asher

Yes, the design flaw was corrected a while ago on the late-model 90nm chips.

You mean the epoxy? It didn't do squat, AFAIK.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Nostromo


You mean the epoxy? It didn't do squat, AFAIK.

No, I mean the design of the HSF and how it fit on the motherboard.

I am curious about your assertion that the epoxy didn't do squat though. It's my understanding it was a combination of the two issues.

[Nostromo]

I'm still under the impression that the failure rates are as bad as ever. I hope you're right, for Microsoft's sake. But if the problem as been fixed, like you say, how come no one says so in the media? You'd think that Microsoft would do some damage control. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wouldn't buy a 360, because he thinks the current models are lemons.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Asher

There's lots, including a couple JRPGs like Eternal Sonata, Blue Dragon, and Enchanted Arms.

Like I said, I'll have to dissect it later. I'm willing to bet that the games on that list that are not sports, racing, downloaded content, and are exclusive to the 360 is a fairly small list.

Again, it's all up to taste. I wasn't aware kids these days still enjoy pseudo-game movies like FF and KH.

If you're a FF nut or your kids are, then obviously the PS3 is the place to be. But I'd be a bit unsure of ditching tons of quality games just to play the latest derivative FF movies.

My oldest loves FF. I've been disappointed with them all since VII, myself, and don't have time for that crap anymore. They both love KH BECAUSE it's a pseudo-movie, simple as hell (walk here, press square), and is disney.

As for 'ditching tons of games'. Quantity is a very fleating argument with me, personally. I read how you play so many games, and I'm glad you live in a situation that allows that. It's nice to hear from someone who can compare and contrast. I don't have the time to do that, and I won't let the kids spend that much time playing either.

We don't buy that many games over the course of a year. All the systems have, and will be putting out, more games that the kids will want than we'll ever be able to buy, anyway. And as far as the kids are concerned, this is not so much about money as it is we don't want them spending so much time playing. With games for me, it's about the money. I have to be very sure I'll really like a game before I divert money away from other things.

To give you an idea, we bought the PS2 the first year they come out (2000 iirc). Over the now 7 years we've had it, we've purchased a grand total of 18 new games, another 6 used copies. Just over 3/year. (adjust to maybe 4/year if the release was actually '01, but I'm pretty sure Madden '01 was among the first games I got, and would have been released in 2000)

Granted, my second son has reached an age he's starting to ask for games (and even bought one with his own money) as well, so that number will likely creap up a tad.

The only thing I would fear is people abandoning the PS3 all together. But, that is appearing less likely of late.