Join the Quest for TBS games!

[El_Cid]

I've been growing steadily more dissapointed as a games player of late - all the curent crop of games are, for the most part simple diversion games.
By that i mean they seem designed to provide a finite amount of gaming fun and are completed fairly easily over a short period of time, often with little or no re-play value and mostly involve little to no mental effort from the player.

Ok we still do have Civ(and long may it continue), but that is about it.

So i've found myself forced to undertake a journey - that of tracking down all the good TBS games ever made. I've been at it for a good few years and thought i may have completed my quest, but a few games i've 'discovered' recently have shown that maybe i still have some great tbs gaming left for me to find

Anyway the two 'discoveries' of late have been:

First up is SMAC - yes i know as a tbs player i SHOULD have played this years ago. I had given it a spin to look at it, but never really got into it, and as i've been finding out recently that was a mistake. The sci-fi setting is interesting, the redness of the game world can grow on you, but most interestingly i found its political message(if you like) probably more relevant to todays world than when the game was released.

Go play it again now(or for the first time), watch the intro and have a good long hard look at the news. Is SMAC going to be our only future cause we're too dumb to do better? And if so we better inject alot of cash into the space program - or we will not even have the option of leaving our planet!

The second tbs game i'm playing way too much of is Age of Wonders.
Yeah the first one(1999). Never played it before, kinda heard of it but it seemed too 'high fantasy' for my tastes, or so i thought.

What i have discovered is a game that obviously was made with some passion, something you just dont feel from most games released today. The little details in this game, the almost perfect polishing all show that this was a 'crafted' game - not just a programed one.

And boy is it full of great strategic depth with more variations of things to try out than i see in ANY game made today by the mainstream.

I've been very impressed by this game as a fine tbs game that requires alot of strategic thought. And the best bit is that i also have the second game to find and enjoy

So what recent TBS goodness has anyone else been discovering? New(yeah right!) or old and on any platform?

my list of tbs games i've got:(on PC unless stated otherwise)

Civ1+2+4
SMAC
CTP1+2
M.A.X 1+2(2 is quasi tbs)
Xcom 1+2+3(3 is a quasi-tbs)
Age of Wonders
Warlords III-Darklords Rising
Heros of Might+Magic III
Imperialism 1+2
All the Total War games before Rome(the non combat is kinda like a tbs board game)
Z(bitmap brothers)
Gal Civ
Starships Unlimited
Lords of the Realm 1+2
Castles 1+2
Ascendancy
Empire of the Sun
King of Dragon Pass
Magic the Gathering(microprose version)
Hammer of the Gods
Romance of the Kingdom3
Lords of Magic
5th Fleet
Axis and Allies(1998 Hasbro interactive version)
KingMaker
Samurai(Reiner Knizia's board game conversion)
Generals(shareware game)
Hoplites(shareware game)
Fire Emblem1+2(Game boy Advance - this could be the modern platform of tbs choice, well and DS of course......why not PC anymore?!)
Advance Wars1+2(GameBoyAdvance)
Centurion: Defender of Rome(Amiga)
Space Empires IV Gold
Space Crusade(Amiga)
ArchonII(Amiga) - ok its glorified chess.
Chess - numerous platforms/versions.
Fantasy General.
Battle Isle(a few of them)
Football Manager 2005(onwards)/avoid the modern Championship Manager series - FM2005 is actualy that game under its new name.

Added(as i forgot them! - thanks for the reminder guys )

Colonisation

Played/Completed but no longer have - and no desire to own again

MOO2

To Get/look into - recomendations will be added.

East Front/West Front - Talonsoft war games
Masters of Magic(just seemed to slip me by!)
Gal Civ2
Age of Wonders II(shadow)
Hearts of Iron II
MOO1
Dominions2
Medieval Total War II(? - if its not ALL about the battle graphics!)
Birth of the Federation
Diplomacy(probably Paradox one?)
Panzer General series
Operational Art of War
Uncommon Valour
Combat Mission series
Flashpoint Germany
Battle for Wesnoth
Stars!(how could i forget this oldie!)
Disciples series
Massive Assault
Jagged Alliance 1+2
Silent Storm
RiskII


Some of these games above are not 100% tbs but have a high proportion of their game set in tbs mode, and play like a tbs more than anything else so are included under the definition.
Anyway what TBS games am i missing? Please add your TBS stories, and correct any recomendations in the list if i've made a mistake

Paradox Games i own - and others i wish were real tbs
EU2
Two Thrones
Crusader Kings
StarWars Supremacy/Rebellion

[Jon Miller]

I have the Talonsoft games.. East Front, West Front, etc.

Those are TBS war game.

JM

[Jamski]

By all accounts Gal Civ 2 is pretty good.

[Jon Miller]

You also somehow missed Master of Magic, one of the games that is so good I bought it twice (OK, my disks had gone bad, and I saw it for 10$ for the CD, so I rebought it..).

Also Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic was decent.

JM

[Kassiopeia]

Colonization, MOO1, MOO2. Victoria, Hearts of Iron 2 (Hey, if Crusader Kings and EU2 count), Dominions 2.

[DaveV]

Master of Magic (see my avatar). The graphics aren't as good as Age of Wonders, and the balance is much worse, but I like the overall game a lot better. I'd love to see someone write a good MoM mod for Civ4. And Master of Orion (the first one) still remains on my hard disk.

[El_Cid]

Good nominations.

I did have MOO2 for a longwhile(god knows where it is now), but i am keeping a look out for MOO1 as i never did play it.

Master of Magic - i always get that confused with Lords of Magic(which i had forgot on my initial list). I know it, its Civ in fantasy land and yes is one i'm looking to get.

EU2 i play as a tbs - like i said if a game has tbs elements it can be included.

I decided to leave out the RPG's which use tbs combat - that would double my list/search and when i'm wanting to play an rpg the fact that it has a tbs combat model isnt the main draw(although preferble to real time imo).

Victoria is a tbs - i always seemed to put it down as a (very)dry industrial revolution simulation? Its one of those games that is a bit like Marmite i suspect I'll do more research on it.

I'll check into the Talonsoft war games - i've not been a massive wargame fan since Sid's Gettysburg, but if its tbs and decent i'm definately up for it. Keep the TBS's coming.

[Aabraxan]

I voted in the poll, but my nominees have already been named: MOO2, SMAC, Civ 3. I've got GalCiv, but haven't played it enough to really know if it ranks among the really, really good TBS games. I haven't bought many computer games in the past few years and it has looked to me like RTS was really dominating the strategy market. As I don't really like RTS, that's been disappointing. Frankly, I think every game should have a classification clearly marked on the box, kind of like the ESRB rating and system requirements: RTS, TBS, RPG, Board, Hybrid RTS/TBs, etc.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Aabraxan
I voted in the poll, but my nominees have already been named: MOO2, SMAC, Civ 3. I've got GalCiv, but haven't played it enough to really know if it ranks among the really, really good TBS games. I haven't bought many computer games in the past few years and it has looked to me like RTS was really dominating the strategy market. As I don't really like RTS, that's been disappointing. Frankly, I think every game should have a classification clearly marked on the box, kind of like the ESRB rating and system requirements: RTS, TBS, RPG, Board, Hybrid RTS/TBs, etc.

I agree with the clear definitions rating - i've been caught out a few times by incorrect uses, it sucks.
And dont worry about the nominations being the best tbs games, i think i'm aiming to update the list in my first post as we get more titles, and that way we should end up with a great list of most of the (mostly) tbs games ever made........oh i just thought of some more i own that should be on the list. thanks for your input and keep the grey cells ticking away - there must be more tbs games

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by El_Cid
Victoria is a tbs - i always seemed to put it down as a (very)dry industrial revolution simulation? Its one of those games that is a bit like Marmite i suspect I'll do more research on it.

That's a very good comparison, you have to learn to like it, and you may never be able to. The learning curve is really steep, I uninstalled it two times out of frustration yet always came back to it a few months later until I finally got the hang of it.

[DrSpike]

I haven't played a new TBS lately apart from Civ4. I guess the last non Civ TBS game I played would be AOW: Shadow Magic, which is actually pretty decent.

[Sandman]

Dominions 2 is a must. Try the demo.

[Zkribbler]

I just finished playing a game of Warlords IV...it's good....but still pales before MoM.

BTW: Isn't MoM a DOS game? Didn't it become unplayable with the introduction of Windows? Isn't this one of the many reasons Bill Gates should be staked out naked over an ant hill??

[Qilue]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
I just finished playing a game of Warlords IV...it's good....but still pales before MoM.

BTW: Isn't MoM a DOS game? Didn't it become unplayable with the introduction of Windows? Isn't this one of the many reasons Bill Gates should be staked out naked over an ant hill??

It was the introduction of Winxp that killed dos games as the win9x series had MS-DOS 7.

[El_Cid]

Ah yes Dominions - i have tried a demo of the first one, it seemed ok if a little cluncky and sadly at the time i didnt have much time to give it. I have been meaning to look at it again and it wil go on the list for sure.

MoM is indeed DOS only, which is no great shakes for myself as i have a dedicated old PC for such games. And i suspect that the fate of Bill Gates might well include ant hills........if he spends a lot of time in Africa etc

And ref WarlordsIV - i understand that the earlier games in the series were actualy better with either WarlordsII Deluxe(the game that made the series famous) or WarlordsIII-Darklords Rising(being the best in the series?). I did own Warlords Battlecry and WarlordsIII was a much more thoughtfull game imo.

No votes for rts over tbs in the poll so far - if ONLY games devs would consider the possibility that even though rts swamped PC gaming for a good long while, a good number of longterm gamers might prefer tbs?

Where are the rts players now? well mostly on console i suspect or too busy working/doing real life. Thats the problem with the casual gamer market - its not game-centric and it can vanish as quickly as it appears.

Hard lessons next-gen may prove?(ie the cost of PS3 and the relatively low sales of 360)

I just thought of some more tbs i've owned/played that are not yet listed. Keep the quest going please