More Hot Coffee

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Silver14
Why should Take 2 / Bethesda be responsible for the content when the ESRB failed to review the contents properly. Shouldn't it be ESRB's fault for improperly putting Teen rating on Mature games and so forth?

IIUC, taketwo submits to ESRB the scenes it thinks are most likely to create a problem (since its obviously not feasible for ESRB to play a game sufficiently to see all content) I presume that after they heard about the mod, they took a closer look at the game, and found things that taketwo hadnt shown them.

IF they are claiming that the stuff taketwo showed them merited a higher rating than ESRB first gave it, then of course ESRB is in the wrong.

[lord of the mark]

Note also -

ESRB ratings are VOLUNTARY. There is no govt censorship of games in the US, at this time, unlike in SOME of the home countries of folks posting here.


Of course Walmart and other retailers wont carry unrated games. Which is their right. Anyone bravely trying to make a point, is free to forego getting shelfspace at Walmart, and make anything they want.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Have they revised Tomb Raider's rating yet?

Is GTA still banned in Australia? What other games are currently banned in Australia?

[Solver]

Then go ahead and buy the games for your kids. The reason we have a rating system is to assist parents, at least those who want to have some control over what their kids are exposed to. I wont get into the details of damage from junk culture, I will just say that I think parents have the right to know.

to the right to know. Since the ratings are an advisory tool, I don't really have a problem with them. I just think that they are poor advise. After all, they base their advise on their own criteria, which can be and, IMO, are very arguable.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
The reason we have a rating system is to assist parents

It's good to have a system to tell the parents, what the game is about... the current rating system doesn't really "work" though, as (what has already been mentioned) it automaticly rates a game that shows a nipple for a split-second as Mature, while a game with lots of pointless killing is good enough for Teens

[Nacht]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Of course Walmart and other retailers wont carry unrated games.

Just out of interest, why won't they carry those titles? Would the american public boycot those stores?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Nacht

Just out of interest, why won't they carry those titles? Would the american public boycot those stores?

Walmarts home is in Arkansas, and it is especially strong in rural areas, and among blue collar americans, who appreciate its low prices, and will accept its poor service and no frills atmosphere. It could be vulnerable to a boycott, but I think the major reason is to avoid alienating its customer base and to keep with its general image. It is for that reason, IIUC, that they dont carry Adults Only, or unrated titles.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by snoopy369
They could be referring to "base" content, as if I recall correctly the models have "base" under-clothes models for physics purposes.

Hehe, for physics purposes.

[Silver14]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
I hope nobody will make a Hot Coffee mod for Civ4.

What, you don't want to see the full Monte?

[Grumbold]

If someone made a nude mod for Civ 4 it would not be a ratings problem because they would have to create the art files from scratch themselves. Since Civ 4 doesn't have any genuine 3d models, there won't be any inconvenient unclad base models lurking around for a mod to activate.

[lord of the mark]

BTW from what I can gather, Bethesda says the stuff they submitted to ESRB the first time was full of all the typical gore of the game.

ESRB really does need to get its act together.

[Silver14]

Ha! I've got you pegged ESRB!

Wait till they find out there is alcohol in the game too.
Violence, nudity, alcohol... I am complete.

[Solver]

ESRB are still funny. The game got rated M because it has a nude model in it that is never visible in the game, because in the game it's covered by a non-removable model of bra at all times. But indeed, showing a breast for a second is enough to earn M. Having a breast in the files that's never shown earns M. Allowing you to slaughter realistic-looking people, and to do killings for money isn't considered mature.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Is GTA still banned in Australia? What other games are currently banned in Australia?

No, but if you change your language setting to Australian English in windows and then play GTA3, you will no longer be able to pick up prostitutes. That, you see, prevents sexual violence against women.

[Sirian]

Originally posted by Solver
ESRB are still funny. The game got rated M because it has a nude model in it that is never visible in the game, because in the game it's covered by a non-removable model of bra at all times. But indeed, showing a breast for a second is enough to earn M. Having a breast in the files that's never shown earns M. Allowing you to slaughter realistic-looking people, and to do killings for money isn't considered mature.

Should they have left out the women and had a male-only game? Sounds like that would have been more acceptable to the ESRB -- not to mention more realistic.

Midieval societies suppress their women, for the most part. Women weren't allowed to be scholars, priests, warriors, leaders. They could have shown the women in "more realistic roles" like only working the kitchen or the fields, or raising a passel of children, and not bothered to make them playable characters or even opponents. That would have been blatantly sexist, but they could have avoided making more detailed female models if they shut the women in the game in to realistically oppressed roles, including not even bothering to portray most of them, just abstract them and be done with it.

According to the ESRB's standards as I understand them, portraying women as chattel would be more acceptable than what they actually did in the game. If that isn't a condemnation of the ESRB as currently implemented, I don't know what would be.


- Sirian