StarCraft

[Elok]

I'm not talking about Overlord "hunting," all I need is to chase the things away (doable by Corsairs in short order, as OLs automatically run) and, short of using a spell, the Zerg is incapable of overcoming some defensive Dark Templar. It can circumvent them by using air units to attack defenses, or it can aim for the PCs with Lurkers and hope the DT are in the way, but that's it. There's no denying that Overlords, compared to Comsat Scans + Science Vessels or Observers, are a joke. Well, the Observers could be chased away by PCs if they got too close, but they have enough sight range that it doesn't seem to be a problem. I haven't had a chance to try them with PvP yet (the one mission I've had vs. Protoss, the last one, was the "revolt" one in which the enemy couldn't use Dark Templars/DAs/Corsairs, and I've never seen it use Arbiter cloaks defensively), but certainly Observers do fine against defensive Wraiths.

I know Ultralisks are great at getting the enemy's attention while the zerglings pile on the real damage, and about their defensive boost tech in BW (I dug through the StarCraft Compendium a great deal while trying to play as the Zerg before). Certainly I'd never use them defensively; just look at all that hide for smaller units to spread around and attack, the lack of attack range, and their problems maneuvering in tight spaces! I know how to use them, and they are impressive, but I'd still much rather have Archons, lower defense or not. The Archon's two worst foes (swarms of smaller enemies and overlapping defensive structures) are shared by the Ultralisk, but the Ultra is also vulnerable to various spells and air units. I love my Archons. I suspect I'm not the only SC player who thinks of them as "bug zappers." They're bright blue and attack with what looks like electric shocks, for crying out loud.

Again, I'm sure there are uses for the Zerg, but they're just missing too many things I value for me to enjoy playing as them:

Capital Ships (I know they aren't invincible, but I find Carriers especially to be remarkably versatile in all kinds of situations, much more so than Ultralisks)
Convenient building system (replenishing drones constantly? Having to build a hatchery first?)
Balanced defensive structures (as opposed to two space-hogging, time-consuming, completely specialized defenses)
A variety of special abilities (Broodlings, Plague, Dark Swarm, and especially Parasite are fun, but...compared to PS, Lockdown, Mind Control, Irradiate, EMP, D-Matrix, Disruption Web, Yamato, Recall...)
Quick healing ability (Units with 1 HP are dead the moment anything with splash damage comes near, whether they can attack or not)
Stealth attack abilities (Lurkers just can't compare to DTs, Arbiters, Wraiths or Ghosts)
Effective stealth detection
True siege weapons

And I could probably think of more. I actually found the Protoss and Terrans to be very similar in terms of skills needed. It's the Zerg that are the odd ones out.

[Barinthus]

Funny - I never had any problems with using Zergs. I used hydralisks entensively along with their flying units (forgot names).

[Whoha]

"I'm not talking about Overlord "hunting," all I need is to chase the things away (doable by Corsairs in short order, as OLs automatically run) and, short of using a spell, the Zerg is incapable of overcoming some defensive Dark Templar."

If your ol are on a move order or are following units they won't run at the first attack.

"There's no denying that Overlords, compared to Comsat Scans + Science Vessels or Observers, are a joke"

I do deny it. Overlords are different units with different capabilities then the above. with an OL you can scout right at the beginning of the game before an enemy player has set up without sacraficing a drone. Later on they can do a lurker drop into the enemy base, and still later then that, the drop of doom, 12 or more OL loaded with units dropped in on an enemy base.

ultralisks and archons are also different units. an archon wouldn't have a hope in hell of even getting close to a terran metal push, but a speed upgraded ultralisk(who takes severely reduced damage from vultures) can get in close. archons are overall superior, but I'd rather have the two templar since zealots are fairly beefy and have the speed upgrade.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Elok
I like being able to build what I want freely without a massive initial investment of time and money

I'd say the Zerg require the least initial investment, and the Protoss the most, what with all their buildings.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Maniac
I'd say the Zerg require the least initial investment, and the Protoss the most, what with all their buildings.

I meant on location. I can't build a sunken colony to defend an area while I build a hatchery, etc. I have to sacrifice one drone for a hatchery first, then another for a creep colony, then I have to wait to transform it to a sunken colony. Takes up a ridiculous amount of space too. Whereas the others can build whatever, whenever.

Overlords are inferior detectors, I mean. Great early scouts or not, they suck as a way of finding cloaked/burrowed units.

[Jon Miller]

Overlords are huge. You aren't comparing them properly.

They should be compared to supply depots and pylons, as well as science vessels and observers...

Jon Miller

[Whoha]

There is one last thing to consider, you start with overlords. there have been times where I've been bottled up in my base waiting for observers or sci vessels to come out.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Overlords are huge. You aren't comparing them properly.

They should be compared to supply depots and pylons, as well as science vessels and observers...

Jon Miller

And also shuttles and dropships, yes. But that just makes it worse from the perspective of detection; detectors tend to attract fire, and when you have a detector that's also a transport and a supply source, you can't really afford to risk them and the enemy knows it.

I admit their availability from the start is nice, but once the game picks up speed, they really can't compete, being both helpless and obvious.

[EPW]

Originally posted by Elok


And also shuttles and dropships, yes. But that just makes it worse from the perspective of detection; detectors tend to attract fire, and when you have a detector that's also a transport and a supply source, you can't really afford to risk them and the enemy knows it.

I admit their availability from the start is nice, but once the game picks up speed, they really can't compete, being both helpless and obvious.

Dozens of fast dropships always at your disposel that also act as detectors are far from useless. The zerg save a ton of minerals by having one unit encompass three seperate functions.

The terran and protoss have to build seperate buildings to produce rather expensive transports that are no stronger than an over, have only one function, and are easy targets for anti-air units.

[Elok]

Yes, but AS DETECTORS, they are inferior. All three races have some kind of hybridization of roles; the Science Vessel is both the Terrans' "aerial spellcaster" unit and their detector, two duties which reinforce each other nicely, as the SV has ways to hurt the cloaked enemies when it finds them. The Observer is useful just because it's invisible itself, so it's all but impossible for the enemy to tell he's being spied on. The Overlord can't hide and it can't fight back in any way. Its multiple purposes are just three good reasons to kill the unit quickly, all wrapped up in one neat package. As a transport with detection abilities, it can see the Wraiths that shoot it down regardless of whether they're cloaked. I guess that saves you the bother of escorting them with a detector plus fighters, but, uh, Observers aren't exactly expensive anyway, Science Vessels are but they're nice to have along just for their abilities, and having spies you can afford to lose can be a plus.

[Whoha]

You'll just have to trust us that Zerg makes out fine in MP . detection is the last thing you want to lose during a battle, and 8 ols do have a lot of health going for them.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
The manual that comes with the game,i must say, is a lite book on its own.

The maual is good, the game is rotten. At least the single player campaign is rotten, and I don't play MP.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Whoha
You'll just have to trust us that Zerg makes out fine in MP .

The Zergs got speed. You don't need to build the units one by one. They, um, grow. Speed is what makes them terrifying. Individually speaking, Zerg units are sub-par.

[EPW]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The maual is good, the game is rotten. At least the single player campaign is rotten, and I don't play MP.

[Elok]

Oh, I don't deny that they're useful; I know there are a LOT of Zerg players, enough to spawn the useful phrase "OMG zerging=teh gay!!!1!1!" with their infuriating swarm tactics. I just uh, don't think the Zerg are the right race for my needs. Or some other bland phrase for "not my cup of tea."