Clinton vs Rockstar

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Adagio


Exactly... it's not like the players can accidently turn the game into a porn game. If they find a mod and installs it they know what they're getting themselfes into. Who cares if it's in the code or not, as long as it doesn't ship enabled with the game.
I don't see any difference in this and a game where you can mod the game to contain the same level adult content

You don't see the difference between Rockstar leaving this material in the game where it could be easily unlocked and *someone else* actually making and inserting the material?

I'm amazed by a couple of the opinions on this.

[child of Thor]

Irresponsible at least. But i'm sure lawers could make it more than that.

I think there is a difference, so i'm with Dr.Spike on this.
From the description that LotM gave, i can only shake my head in dissaprovement. Not because i'm a prude, but i find myself asking 'Why?' - is it an essential part of the game play - and is it really suitable for the kids(minors) that we all know will get to see it or play it, when for example their older sibblings set it up on their copy of GTA.

I think its a blunder by Rockstar.

[Skanky Burns]

I can't believe they wasted programmer-time by including this feature that is at best questionable from a gameplay viewpoint.

I agree that Rockstar was irresponsible for leaving the code in the game where it could be easily unlockable, but honestly - a bit of soft porn in the middle of a game about violence and breaking the law?

[DrSpike]

Yes, I am not particularly bothered by it, but I am bothered by people who can't see the difference between someone else adding the content and Rockstar adding it and someone else unlocking it.

[Jamski]

I'm going to say I can't see the difference. Just to bother you.

[DrSpike]

[:) Smiley]

Well there's the question of was it planned to be in there, or was it the work of a rogue programmer. SimCopter had a case of thes econd:

SimCopter: a gay old time

by Shane Mooney
December 11, 1996, 4 p.m. PT

Though some are sarcastically calling SimCopter's
bikini-clad, kissing men Maxis's greatest publicity stunt
to date, the publisher has officially denounced any
involvement with programmer Jacques Sevrin or the
possibly offensive Easter eggs. In fact, Sevrin has been
fired, and Maxis is taking action to eradicate the
programmer's brief social statement from the new
product.

Apparently Sevrin was upset over the heterosexual bias
of SimCopter, which features scantily clad women in
certain scenes. As a statement, Sevrin decided to put in
his own scantily clad men in the game's closing
sequence--men who not only kiss one another but also
smooch with your character. As it stands, all new versions
from here on out will not include the scene. In addition,
Maxis plans on releasing a patch to correct Sevrin's hack
in the 50,000 units that have already shipped to retail
stores.

After each successful mission, a marching band usually
appears to commemorate the event; however, at the final
mission, Sevrin's men take the stage. Beyond some
libidinous noises, you will automatically grab and kiss any
man you approach. There are also several other Sevrin
Easter eggs that appear on certain dates, such as Friday
the 13th, September 30 (Sevrin's birthday), and August
22 (his ex-beau's birthday).

"On those days, all kinds of things happen," says Sevrin.
"There will be boys kissing, there will be a greater
number of bimbos, there will be Elvis impersonators. It's
really hilarious."

While Easter eggs are common in computer games, Will
Wright, cofounder of Maxis, says that Sevrin's
programming was completely unauthorized. Though the
programmers had frequent meetings discussing what to
include, Sevrin never mentioned the extracurricular
activities that caused his termination.

Sevrin and Maxis claim that there's nothing "overtly
sexual" about the scenes. That depends on whom you ask.
After kissing one of Sevrin's characters, you briefly turn
him around, place your hands on his shoulders, and, er,
quickly express your affection in other ways, so to speak.

Enough about the background, though. What you probably
really want to know is how you can see the scene and
judge for yourself. Well, it's simple: there are cheat
codes that can quickly take you to the end of the game.

After loading the game, start a new career. Once you're
in the game, turn on the cheat mode by hitting Ctrl-Alt-X.
Now type Warp me to career: 29. This will take you to
the final level of the game. Now turn on the cheat mode
again and type Been there, done that. This completes
the game. The men will pop up (so to speak - Bren) and do
their thing. Also, the game's closing sequence will begin, but
after that's over, you'll be back with the men where you can
"experiment" a bit more. To witness the tomfoolery that
appears on given days, merely change the dates on your
computer. In Windows 95, this can be done by selecting
Date/Time in the Control Panel under Settings

[child of Thor]

could be that. I know in CTP2 the over worked/underpaid programmers left all sort of nasty, and potentialy embarrasing comments in the game code. It had to all be stripped out before we could use the source code here on poly.
So it could be the work of a 'rouge' programmer(or two).

[DrSpike]

They were communists?

[Adagio]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Yes, I am not particularly bothered by it, but I am bothered by people who can't see the difference between someone else adding the content and Rockstar adding it and someone else unlocking it.

But both cases requires someone else to do something that is normally not done, and both cases could basicly end up with the same result

Isn't modifying those files illegal anyway?

[duke o' york]

I was hoping that it was George Clinton not Hilary.

[DarkCloud]

Isn't modifying those files illegal anyway?

-If that were true, then the people who made Counterstrike (which started off as a Mod) should be arrested

Depending on how easy it is to access this built-in-easteregg is, I honestly don't see what's wrong with it since it's
1.) not something easily found.
2.) equivalent to something downloadable from the internet (as spike mentioned)

and as for the sims' question- in the sims 'sex' can occur in the bedroom... and as already mentioned, the naked 'skins' can be used with impunity... so in some ways the Sims is almost as bad as this game since sex is actually built-into the mainstream sims game whereas it's 'under the hood' in GTA.

[Standup]

I don't understand how some cartoon/animated breasts are such a big issue in a game about crime, killing and loads of violence.

It seems to be a feature of the modern media that violence and killing in films or TV is ok but sexual references or even swearing is not.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
-If that were true, then the people who made Counterstrike (which started off as a Mod) should be arrested

Of course often game companies don't see any reason to arrest the modders. In the case with CS those who made HL got a lot more sales than it would have gotten without CS, going after the modders would be the same as shooting themselfes in the foot

I'm not familiar with the law about this, but I've heard editing game files is illegal... but maybe that rule only applies to exe files? Of course a lot of mods doesn't require any of the original files to be modified

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

-If that were true, then the people who made Counterstrike (which started off as a Mod) should be arrested

Depending on how easy it is to access this built-in-easteregg is, I honestly don't see what's wrong with it since it's
1.) not something easily found.
2.) equivalent to something downloadable from the internet (as spike mentioned)

and as for the sims' question- in the sims 'sex' can occur in the bedroom... and as already mentioned, the naked 'skins' can be used with impunity... so in some ways the Sims is almost as bad as this game since sex is actually built-into the mainstream sims game whereas it's 'under the hood' in GTA.

The ESRB rules are that if you include content on the disk, youve got to tell them about it. Doesnt matter if its easily found. The question is intent, and reasonable limits. You CANT hold publishers responsible for every mod thats made, not without eliminating most moddability. You CAN hold them responsible for stuff that THEY code, and that THEY choose to include on a disk.