The Games Industry thread.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Not Blizzard, not Marxis, Not Firaxis (so far ).

Marxis? Did they release Sim Communist?

[Rasbelin]

Skanky's point is valid, but so's UR's. Remember Activision, EA, Maxis, Atari, Sierra and Microprose. They've all produced an awful lot of titles and have survived up to a point. Now only Activision and EA stand up like before. Many studios only indeed get very little done. What happen to the one that made MoO3? No news from them. Maybe went all out off business. Many studios do indeed only make one or two titles, but it's due lack of funds these days. You either fight for your living or munch smaller ones like EA has done. EA itself is these days doing very little themselves, like Infogrames. They use contractors and work as middlemen by being publishers of loads of titles, made by eg. Maxis.

The gaming industry has IMO become overheated. There's soon only giants doing business, while others are failing or don't get exposure. One of these smaller ones, but which still goes on, is Austrian Jowood Productions. They've published quite some games. They've survived, but hell, will they last in a business like this? I think we need more competition in the game distribution business. Online game download sales are just about to get popular, now as broadband is fast enough for game downloads. They should follow what the music industry did, especially Apple's iTunes.

The chain of distribution between the game studio and end-user should be cut down. The less middlemen, the better. Intriguing game ideas should get more time in the limelight. This could advocate developing good titles such as a "SMAC II" or "Col II", or anything great, which has its niche market. Also would love to see a new Panzer General.

What I'd really love to see, is a growth in a "games by gamers for gamers" movement, which would mean community based game development. Just like FreeCiv, Candle'Bre, etc. But with increased manpower and even some financial resources. People should realise that just like folks doing it for living in game studios, alternative games are made by real people, despite it's not for profit. But somekind of a contribution as cash or other valuables would certainly make a difference, by showing credit for what people do off-work.

My analogy: if you like Simon's Colonization, then why not give Simon a dollar or two, just like you give Infogreed for Civ III?

[child of Thor]

good points Rasbelin.

I wonder about how good this downloading games thing will actually be - it is quite an expensive business with all the associated support costs etc, and Steam didn't exactly go down that well?

Still with a few big publishers controlling most of the outlets i guess it is one of the main avenus for the middle size dev house.

And one encouraging sign has been to see a few Devs not sign their souls away(literaly!) to a big publishing house, but go for either part-selfpublishing or using a smaller label. I cant remember who it was exactly, but it seemed to me to make sense, especialy if you had IP you wanted to be able to keep in the longterm.

And i'd go for the 'games by gamers for gamers' label

I think if we could cut out the middlemen(seem to often be the publishers these days?), then games might get a whole lot cheaper to make too?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike


Marxis? Did they release Sim Communist?

The Sims - try to earn more money and buy more stuff, till you realize that youve been caught in a treadmill of false needs, designed to ensure that your labor can be exploited. When you realize this, you join the party, and WIN. (expansion pack is called Sims Red Cell, where you interact with comrades and plan revolutionary activities - new activities, styles, etc available for download at Partyline.com - characters who dont download promptly will be purged)

SimCity - Includes not just industry, commerce and residence, but class status of all sims, and crisis in industry as declining rate of exploitation leads to profit crisis.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rasbelin
The chain of distribution between the game studio and end-user should be cut down. The less middlemen, the better.

That's the main thing, and that's what Stardock's doing. In fact, the Internet is so good at getting rid of middleman I am curious as to why game developers didn't flock to it. Even artiste and writers use the Net to directly interact with fans/readers/etc.

Originally posted by Rasbelin
Also would love to see a new Panzer General.

That wouldn't be half bad

[child of Thor]

Stardock is a good example.

1. It does work pretty well
2. It seems secure(haven't heard anything different)

Still i'm guessing its pretty expensive to run/upkeep, especialy if you don't have atleast as much software output as the mainstream?
And online security will always be a barrier to many people - there have been too many scare stories to convince the majority to jump in. Even banks get fished etc, so untill these issue's are completely resolved people(like me) will always be a bit hesitant i think.

but in the greater scheme of things, especialy in the current market setup, many Devs might well do better overall by going down this route. I think for me the biggest incentive would be to maintain 100% controll over my IP, most publishing deals sees the dev give over that IP to the publisher for future use. So all the creative work gets signed over in the standard contract. This seems crazy to me, and i'm surprised its taken this long for only a few Devs to start to wake up and see where this can leave them.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Jamski
He's saying that gamers should stop making games for other gamers, but instead aim for the Sunday Gamer/Console market - I think his point was that depth and thought don't sell.

They don't sell to most idiots or children but there will always be a market for people who want to have to think a little in order to solve a game or to do well. Paradox is a case in point.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


The Sims - try to earn more money and buy more stuff, till you realize that youve been caught in a treadmill of false needs, designed to ensure that your labor can be exploited. When you realize this, you join the party, and WIN.

You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by child of Thor
Still i'm guessing its pretty expensive to run/upkeep, especialy if you don't have atleast as much software output as the mainstream?

Not really, because every single computer game I know of has its own website. It's used to post news, screenshots, patches, new scenarios, etc.

Originally posted by child of Thor
And online security will always be a barrier to many people - there have been too many scare stories to convince the majority to jump in. Even banks get fished etc, so untill these issue's are completely resolved people(like me) will always be a bit hesitant i think.

It's phishing , and it works differently. Banks don't get phished, its the users. Phishing is very easy to defeat - several seconds of thinking would do.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by General Ludd
You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

You win by realising that fact and stop playing the game.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by General Ludd


You know, that's exactly what the Sims is... only you can't win.

So it *is* a communism simulator after all.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Not really, because every single computer game I know of has its own website. It's used to post news, screenshots, patches, new scenarios, etc.



It's phishing , and it works differently. Banks don't get phished, its the users. Phishing is very easy to defeat - several seconds of thinking would do.

ok 'phishing' - is this like the how to pronounce 'pawned' thing?

And i think stuff like Stardock/Steam is slightly different from a regular game website? In terms of its security etc and probably needing people to constantly monitor hacker attempts etc? maybe i'm wrong on this, not really sure about how it all works

As another bit of news:

A friend went for a job(poorly paid) at Eidos a few months back, and now the company that bought Eidos(SCC or something?) is offering the same job but for even less money! progress

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by child of Thor
And i think stuff like Stardock/Steam is slightly different from a regular game website? In terms of its security etc and probably needing people to constantly monitor hacker attempts etc? maybe i'm wrong on this, not really sure about how it all works

Nope. As far as I can tell Stardock is completely different from Steam. Stardock doesn't use any protection schemes (all completely useless anyway).

If Microsoft doesn't get broken into much I don't think they have a problem. There was a high profile attack against Microsoft some time ago when the attacker nicked some source code for "Longhorn," but that's about it. Considering the number of attacks they must face this is not really a serious problem.

Most of the break-ins are done against Wintel boxes and/or people who don't know what they are doing. 80% or more of successful break-ins are done by social engineering anyway.

[child of Thor]

Well from a few websites and the magazine Game that i get, it seems the industry is telling us we will have to pay more for so called 'next generation' games, prodominantly on consoles; but i wouldn't be surprised to see it filter into the pc market.
So how do people feel about paying around £60 for a AAA title over the £40 we now pay?
Is this the price of super graphics/progress?

I've seen figures for the new price range from around £50 - £80 for the uk and the same for the usa($50-$80), this might be enough to put me off this next generation altogether, but that view is tied into my dismay over most of the games that get released these days.
Still even if you're a graphics junky - £/$60 seems pretty steep for what is rapidly becoming throw away entertainment?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by child of Thor
So how do people feel about paying around £60 for a AAA title over the £40 we now pay?

Fat chance I'll pay that much.

Though we pay only HKD250 or so for them, l a 50% increase is a huge no-no for me.