FG: Galactic Overlord 8, Part 3

[snoopy369]

Hmm. Thinking of ways to make 'defend' useable ... You'd either have to make it doable alongside making a special (which probably overpowers it), or make it doable alongside an attack (not sure if that works at all or not, most attack with nearly all their fleet anyway), or ...

... or make it doable through joint defense. This is also very powerful, possibly too much ... but if all players must use their action that turn (ie no action) to do it, it could be useful (and less powerful because there's no guarantee anyone will attack).

Or, what about making it like a counterspy? You can do it say three times the whole game, it doesn't count as an action (you can do it alongside making a special), but you can't increase the number of times you can do it? Or, make it a special itself - you must build it, start out with none - but if you use it, anyone who wants to can send ships to defend you? (Thus not as much disincentive to defend, as the defendEE must use the special).

[Tassadar500]

What about the ability to give ships to another player?

[Sparrowhawk]

I don't like teh idea of gifting ships, but I do think we should be able to gift BPs.

/me puts his 2 cents in

[Ljube]

It is possible. You should just gift bases and that will transfer into gifted BPs.

[Jamski]

Well, I would allow someone to send their fleet to defend another, but I still can't see anyone doing it. Gifting ships is a total no-no though. Gifting bases is still allowed under the current rules.

Joint defence (i.e. two fleets protect two empires) is not only too powerful, but goes against two basic concepts of GO, that of backstabbery, and that of the time involved in interstellar battle. We have to preserve the idea that an overlord sends an order, the ships go into hyperspace, and they emerge a week later, well beyond communication range. You have to decide in advance which empire your ships are attacking or defending. We can assume that some kind of hyper-gate technology combined with orbital defences and system ships allow you to defend all of your own bases, no matter the size of your empire, but to defend another overlord's empire MUST require the redeployment of your fleet to their territory.

-Jam

[Sparrowhawk]

It is possible. You should just gift bases and that will transfer into gifted BPs.

By that messed up logic, it is possible to gift ships too (by gifting bases someone can build more ships) assuming they have self build bases, but that isn't what I meant (obviously).

Right now it is possible to gift bases.
It is not possible to gift ships.

I think it should be possible to gift BPs.

/me

[Jamski]

BP's represent the industrial production of entire planets or moons. You can't simply shift that across the galaxy.

Build a ship with those BPs and you can fly it there though.

-Jam

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Jamski
BP's represent the industrial production of entire planets or moons. You can't simply shift that across the galaxy.

Build a ship with those BPs and you can fly it there though.

-Jam

You can also transport your potentially huge stockpile over a great distance, apparently, since you do not lose stockpiled BPs in a baseswap as long as you have some kind of bases at the end of the turn.

[snoopy369]

I presume giving bases away is there for three reasons-
1) It's already technically possible, by two people attacking each other with 100% of forces (or just one person while the other person has D as his first order) ... les flexible perhaps, but technically possible

2) It's even more possible through allied attacks; just promise to only take 1 base out of the next 10 you take through attacking together, and that's giving 4 bases.

3) There should be *some* way to reward people for favourable actions; it increases the strategic options.

Transferring bases, if not particularly logical (it's easier physically to trade BPs than bases imo), is the least damaging to the fabric of the game. As said before, transferring BPs is identical to transferring ships, as they can be interchanged essentially (in one direction anywho). Transferring BPs and/or ships means you have the possibility of huge shifts in the balance of the game; Jamski and I for example each had >100 bps available in recent turns, and had we sent those to an ally, would have quite dissapointed someone who, say, was thinking Jonny an easy target, and suddenly found him with 250bps of ships and a target more difficult to kill than they thought.
It also imbalances the game, because it strongly *encourages* players to do this - say an alliance of four players, in a 20+ player game not unreasonable, the three players go out on attack, gain some bases; transfer half of their BPs to a fourth player, who builds up a huge army, and also transfer their bases to him primarily. He builds up a lot of spies, as he is undefeatable by any reasonable size force - he's basically 2.5 teams, plus the fact that he has more bases, and has no losses from shipbuilding. The only way to beat him is a larger alliance - or someone else with this strategy as well. It is quite unbalanced, and not good for the game.

Am I right, Jamski?

And why wouldn't anyone do it? I think the only issue is what are the penalties you might suffer from it - are you unable to build a special that turn, etc. I think the benefits/penalties can be managed effectively, to make it possible to do it. I don't think it should be *common* - and certainly if there's a better way to ensure more action in this game on both sides, i'm all for it - but there will be situations where it's used, i'm sure. (Well, fairly.)

One question - is it impossible that a defensive 'advantage' might be created - either a natural one or a 'special' - like fortifying in civ? That's the other way this could be handled; if you can set it up so a single player in theory has a chance against an attacker, either by strict numbers ie 150% strength on defense, or by some sort of OOB option only available to defenders (perhaps "F" can be used once during the battle, for example, which allows the defending general to adjust his tactics mid-battle eliminating bonuses from 'bunched-spread out' and 'close in-back off') for the rest of the wave?

[Jamski]

Well, I toyed with the idea of allowing BP's to be spent on "system ships" at the cost of 1BP per ship. They would ONLY be able to defend if the bases were attacked, would have 1HP each, ALWAYS be the first killed and be equipped with 1 each of lasers, torpedoes and fighters.

i.e. No different types of system ships, just a flat number representing tonnage of these mixed smaller vessels and defence satellites.

Just a possible idea. They work out cheaply in terms of BPs per gun, but expensive in terms of BPs per HP, and cannot attack.

-Jam

[Spaced Cowboy]

They'd be better if you could pick the weapons, I prefer all lazors on D.

[snoopy369]

Hmm... but would anyone build them?

It would have to be a pretty good deal - otherwise the flexibility lost is more valuable. (Although 3bp worth of firepower for 1bp is pretty sweet.) Also, it would have to be possible to build enough for safety from allied attack ... or at least very *expensive* allied attack.

Though it might be good for variety - you'd probably have some people build a lot of defense and hope to stick around for a long time, and some start out with tons of offense and try to get a lot of bases, shield for three turns, and then have a huge defense by the end of it

(Might be imbalancing there, though.)

But I like the idea, if it is balanced correctly.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy
They'd be better if you could pick the weapons, I prefer all lazors on D.

That would be a bit stronger - which is not beneficial for balance, i think, 3x firepower for your money is worth a lot already. Also, i assume you get no tactics with them, automatically default-default, since they're immobile satellites.

[Spaced Cowboy]

I think they whould still have tactics, you should be able to deploy them where you choose, even though they are immobile, you still can set them up for a defense, as opposed to an offiensive fleet that has to approach in the formation.

[Skanky Burns]

They would likely just boost your gun numbers in defence of the home planet, while using the same tactics your entire defence fleet would use.