PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 6)

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

By the way, Apolyton is a great place to improve your English.

-Martin

My previous mistake is unforgivable as I know this generic you. Moreover, it is also used in French. I can only say that because of the lack of time I am sometimes reading a post too quickly, that which I should not do.

More seriously now, I need to see the Updater at work before writing a Great Library entry.

As I don't want to write about something that is perhaps about to change I need an answer to the following question : is someone planning to reimplement the Updater or is it a feature that will stay as is ?

In the second case I just need to figure out how it is currently working and then I write the entry (but it will certainly be one of the last, if not the last, AE CtP2 games I play, time to revert back to my good old tweaked SAP2).

In the first case, reimplementation, I write an entry after a long test of the Updater.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

In the second case I just need to figure out how it is currently working and then I write the entry (but it will certainly be one of the last, if not the last, AE CtP2 games I play, time to revert back to my good old tweaked SAP2).

Why would you go back to SAP2 Tamerlin? Just wondering.

According to:

http://www.ctp2.info/aewiki/index.php?n=Database.UpgradeTo

AE Modding Wiki : Database : UpgradeTo

Text file: Units.txt

How Used: Flag; add text UpgradeTo and the unit to upgrade to.

How it Works:: UpgradeTo allows for old units to be upgraded. In the text file you can repeat entries of UpgradeTo for later technologies. The game checks if the upgrade unit can be built in the city then checks how much gold you have. The price of gold is the shield cost of the new unit - the old unit shield multiplied by your governments RushUnitModifier?.

Game Function: If a unit is obsolete (no longer buildable) and you can build the next unit listed in UpgradeTo then when you sleep a unit in one of you cities that Unit will be upgraded to the next unit if you have enough gold for it. The flexibility of UpgradeUnit? also takes in account special units that are available if a good is required. So if you don't have the good then you can still build the old unit (works better than just obsoleting by advance). For example if tanks require oil and you don't have any then you can still build cavalry.

I haven't tested it lately, although IIRC it worked fine when I tested it sometime last year. I'm still in the early stages of my latest game but I'm planning to test it again.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora


Why would you go back to SAP2 Tamerlin? Just wondering.

According to:

http://www.ctp2.info/aewiki/index.php?n=Database.UpgradeTo

As far as I am concerned playing a 4X game without a viable way to upgrade units is a waste of time. Disbanding units and building new units to replace them is a burden especially when you are reaching the end of the game. It is a bit like sending workers at every corner of the map in Civ3, boring. If there isn't a viable way to update units in the AE CtP2, playing it is thus a waste of time. As it is now, without working strings and messages telling me how much it is costing to upgrade a unit or even asking me if it is really what I want to do, the unit updater is not viable.

In other words, IMO, planning a strategy (for example building Fortifications where units will be upgraded in the future) is more interesting than moving around units to move them back at the same place.

Over the time, I tweaked my old original SAP2 installation of the game. Of course, the SAP2 lacks some of the feature of the AE, the AI is less efficient... but there is a working Unit Updater.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

Over the time, I tweaked my old original SAP2 installation of the game. Of course, the SAP2 lacks some of the feature of the AE, the AI is less efficient... but there is a working Unit Updater.

Hopefully it won't be too hard to add the messages needed for upgrades then.

Using the sleep command for upgrades is not ideal either. Like when you try to upgrade a unit with not enough gold left the unit just sleeps with no warning IIRC.

In fact I would like to see how much each upgrade costs before I do it, perhaps in the Great Library, but something new as part of the interface would be better. Like the cost popup you get before performing a slave raid or building a farm.

Perhaps you could press the upgrade shortcut (button or key) once to get the cost popup and then again to upgrade. If you do any other action or key press (except perhaps a mouse movement) between those two presses the upgrade is cancelled and the popup disappears.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora


Hopefully it won't be too hard to add the messages needed for upgrades then.

Thank you...

Using the sleep command for upgrades is not ideal either. Like when you try to upgrade a unit with not enough gold left the unit just sleeps with no warning IIRC.

I know but if I remember correctly, all the boxes are used by the end of the game and it is not possible to add another command. The green move arrow could be replaced by another symbol. I don't know if anyone use this command, as far as I am concerned I don't remember having used it.

In fact I would like to see how much each upgrade costs before I do it, perhaps in the Great Library, but something new as part of the interface would be better. Like the cost popup you get before performing a slave raid or building a farm.

As far as I remember the cost of the upgrade is equal to the Rushbuy cost of the future unit.

Perhaps you could press the upgrade shortcut (button or key) once to get the cost popup and then again to upgrade. If you do any other action or key press (except perhaps a mouse movement) between those two presses the upgrade is cancelled and the popup disappears.

It could be a good idea.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Tamerlin

Thank you...

Don't thank me, I just give Martin more work to do

I know but if I remember correctly, all the boxes are used by the end of the game and it is not possible to add another command. The green move arrow could be replaced by another symbol. I don't know if anyone use this command, as far as I am concerned I don't remember having used it.

I never used it either, but maybe someone does.

As far as I remember the cost of the upgrade is equal to the Rushbuy cost of the future unit.

E implemented upgrades a little different as I posted above:

"The price of gold is the shield cost of the new unit - the old unit shield multiplied by your governments RushUnitModifier."

So upgrading to a Samurai from a Warrior would be:

460 - 150 * 4 = 1240 gold

which is somewhat less than the cost of rush-buying a new Samurai (1840), so it's always better to upgrade rather than just rush-buy.

BTW I noticed that rush-buying (for units, buildings and wonders) is still being doubled for some reason. I reported this bug a long time ago I think. The upgrade code is working fine though, and is not doubling the unit rush-buy modifier from govern.txt to get the upgrade cost.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora

I never used it either, but maybe someone does.

A little poll, I don't use it.

E implemented upgrades a little different as I posted above:

"The price of gold is the shield cost of the new unit - the old unit shield multiplied by your governments RushUnitModifier."

So upgrading to a Samurai from a Warrior would be:

460 - 150 * 4 = 1240 gold

which is somewhat less than the cost of rush-buying a new Samurai (1840), so it's always better to upgrade rather than just rush-buy.

It sounds logical, you earn the benefit of disbanding the unit before the upgrade. Recycling is good for the earth.

By the way, Upgrading should also be allowed in Fortifications.

[Ekmek]

I think martin added an upgrade flag for tileimps also so the forts can do upgrading.

IIRC we had an AI option to get free upgrades or pay for upgrades. but the beginturn ode was the same it would cycle through all units and upgrade them (until they ran out of gold if they had to pay)

@orders buttons
I really wanted so buttons were on a scroll bar (i guess similar to civ4 but who cares it gives more buttons) but I never got the code to work. i wanted it for tile imps to.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
I think martin added an upgrade flag for tileimps also so the forts can do upgrading.

Which currently only exists in outcommented source lines, but of course can be uncommented, easily.

Concerning buttons, we need an upgrade icon, and we need also an image for the great library. So any takers.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Concerning buttons, we need an upgrade icon

How big does it need to be, and where would it go on the interface?

[Maquiladora]

I never liked the Activision-created world map for the world map scenario, so I just tried to create a new scenario with the AE and OmniGod's world map. Heres some things I found:

I couldn't place more than 64 civs/players start location using either "by nation" button.

I couldn't start a scenario with more than 14 players, no idea why.

What I wanted to do was add all 70 civs start location on the map in their capital city locations, and on starting the scenario allow the player to choose any civ (from the list of 70), and any number of opponents (up to the maximum 31).

I was also wondering what would happen if I started a scenario with two civs start location on the same square (you can do this when creating the start points), like Mexico and the Aztecs, or Italy and Rome. Would it crash the game, would it only allow one in the game, or what would happen? I didn't have time to test that yet.

[Maquiladora]

I forgot to post this, the Minoans (who start on a one-tile island), didn't even settle their first city in 18 turns, then I got tired of waiting:

EDIT: Also the frame around the loading window on scenarios is still not working sometimes, except now it's just the corner graphics missing. The problem usually disappears when you try to load a scenario more than the first time after starting the game.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
How big does it need to be, and where would it go on the interface?

For the Great Library it has to be put on the order background, and if I remember correctly the Great Library image has a size of 160 x 120 pixels. Of course the order icon should be centered, the edges of that icon need to be smoothed and blurred against the background, so that they don't look like as someone has just sticked them onto the background. And the icon has to throw a shadow.

The icon for the order button bank needs to be smaller. Probably, the best is to use a big version of the icon and scale it down, that's how I did it for the city style icons of the scenario editor.

So it is the best to have a big version that can be scaled down and put onto a Great Library background. If you need help with the shadow and the blurring part, I can help you, however I thought for the icon itself we need something more creative than the default unit symbol with a plus sign on it. That's how I made add a pop to a city icon.

Another thing I prefer is that the icon should not be subject to copyright. So self-made is okay, also stuff from the game itself, but not from Civ3 or Civ4 if it is notable more complex than a two-dimensional shield as used in Civ2.

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I was also wondering what would happen if I started a scenario with two civs start location on the same square (you can do this when creating the start points), like Mexico and the Aztecs, or Italy and Rome. Would it crash the game, would it only allow one in the game, or what would happen? I didn't have time to test that yet.

From what I no is that the game can move two units onto the same tile, via slic for instance, or a small source code modification. I also know that you can group units from different civilizations. The only thing you should not do is to move such a mixed stack, than the game will crash.

From here on it is all speculation: I assume that the game has no check for such a case. So it will try to place the settlers onto the same spot. This may crash the game or may not crash the game. If it doesn't crash the game, the AIs will move the settlers to good spots. And that won't be a problem accept that the two AIs will race for the same city locations.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Martin what do you save your TGA's with? I can't seem to find a program that doesn't make the TGA's appear distorted in CtP2, except Photoshop CS2(9.0), and I don't want to install that system hog again.

I've so far tried:

GIMP (distorted)
IrfanView (distorted)
Paint Shop Pro 8 (perfect but upside down )
Paint.NET (distorted)

I could just post them and you can save them so they work I guess.