DESIGN: Governments

[Maquiladora]

Democracy does come the earliest now. It requires Ages of Reason and Nationalism, and Nationalism requires Printing Press instead of Fascism now, so Democracy comes much earlier.

Communism next because of Banking etc, and Fascism comes last because of Mass Media and all those prerequisites.

If I were to choose I'd go Democracy right off for the city limit and growth, then leave Democracy for Communism for more prod+commerce, and I wouldn't even touch Fascism now, not even for Fascists.

This effectively means everyone should go Democracy or lose a lot of growth and science between researching Communism.

It's going to be hard to balance as it's almost a "no-brainer" to go Democracy. There has to be some negative hit to your empire if you switch to Democracy too early, giving a choice. Perhaps crippling war discontent, aswell as the unit support. This has to offset exactly the benefit of building/capturing (potentially) 15 more cities though.

Then there needs to be a reason to switch to Fascism over Communism. War discontent could decrease even more. Perhaps make Fascist better as it's later.

This was probably better in a government thread.

... and here it is.

[Maquiladora]

It's pretty much the same situation for the 3 early govs aswell. Theocracy being Fascism, but Monarchy being Communism and coming first, and Republic being Democracy coming 2nd.

There's not much to separate Monarchy and Republic though. It can be easily tweaked to give different benefits, and I see no problem with everyone going for Monarchy at first.

The first choice at Republic, why stay in Monarchy? Lower crime, martial Law and low military support. I think these can easily be tweaked further to separate them into very different (but equally effective) govs.

Theocracy is a problem though. It's benefits over Republic are basically gold, low crime, and martial law. Over Monarchy, growth, gold and low crime. So a high gold and really low crime government.

Lower crime saves more of every resource. Gold gives more unit upgrades, diplomacy and rushbuying. These all sound good, but it's lower crime isn't effective enough to offset the extra growth and science of republic, and the higher gold doesn't offset the lower military support costs of Monarchy enough.

Also somewhat like Fascism and the Fascist, the Cleric isn't worth the switch, in fact it's pretty useless at the moment.

Some suggestions later.

[Ekmek]

I think Republic should be a more commercial take, and a little less growth.


Monarchy I think should have a higher growth and slightly higher production. Really I think Monarchy should be the bridge that leads you to the modern democracy.

Republics were mainly small and when they got to big they became empires (monarchy). So I think Republic should have a relatively high commercial boost but a lower city limit than monarchy.

Theocracy - thats a hard one maybe a huge population growth type govt. Something that would make even somewhat appealing in the modern age. But science and commerce should be hurtingon this one. I'd even say they should have a high city limit, almost reaching modern age coomunism.


For democracy I think it should have that crippling war discontent and high unit costs. Make it the growing peaceful one. Let improvements that minimize discontent come around communism to make it a choice between going commie or beefing up the democracy. I think Monarchy could still play here but communism should be real tempting to switch from. So essentially we'd get a brief period of monarchy vs democracy, then later democracy vs commie (red scare), then probably democracy & commie vs fascism.

Overall I like your ideas. I think if we give the player more hard choices to make they will feel more attached to their empire and their game and the differences, being hard, would make for a more interesting game.

[LemurMadness]

OK, concerning about the change on Fascism to Mass Media and Nationalism (can we change it to Infantry Tactics? so Infantry Tactics wont be a dead-end advance), I thought about making Fascism a Scientific Military Goverment (Something like a proto-technocracy). As you know, Fascist invented Guided Missiles, Jet Aircraft, Night Vision systems, UFOS! And they even had sketches for an Atomic Bomb - However they weren't capable of knowing the Brit's Radar, but they were ruled by a (pseudo)Democratic goverment (until recent times ).

Proposal:

Growth Rank: 2
Science Rank: 4
Production Rank: 4
Economic Rank: 2

Rest remains the same.

Now, for the Fascist, that special unit that Fascism has: We should upgrade it's values, because they're way later than the InfantryMan (it's equal Attack/Defense/Ranged) to something like, a little higher MachineGunner?

About Theology, yes it is worth the switch, I use it because it has martial law, high income and high growth which is the style of gameplay I like to use, I don't like pretty much tank rushing over the enemy

[Ekmek]

THe fascists also spent a lot of wasted money on weird psuedo theories, mostly race based. The german developments might be a result of previous, pre-nazi investment in tech. of course then again nazism was based off of aggressive competition (corpratism and worse than capitalism) so their science should be reasonable but not a technocracy.

the fascist shuld be an offensive unit, enought to beat machine gunner, but i think there def should belw almost 5 or 10.

[HuangShang]

How close is the fascist to the marine? The musketeer is definitely eons ago, so if its early enough, it can be exactly in between the musketeer and marine. Otherwise, it can be the anti-machine gunner like E says. The fascist will effectively be the first unit to break trench warfare by getting a bonus against machine gunner and flank (but he moves one like all other infantry). Another idea is to give it two moves and a rather large ranged attack (compensated by lack of front line survivability), so as to be the fastest land range power pre missiles.

[Ekmek]

Has anyoe given though to changing the citylimit for anarchy? currently its at 1000. but I really think that it should be 5 or less. Anarchy should be a costly move, something that ups the stakes of switching a govt.

Now its kind of casual, see a good govt then switch and wait a bit. I really think it should be like:"I got democracy but do I really want to suffer the revolts, possible secession, (and insurgents if enabled), by switching?"

I think this will better emulate why in the modern world there are still a lot of tyrranies and monarchies. Anarchy should really set you back a bit.

[Maquiladora]

Fascist anti-machine gunner is fine by me, although it would probably need higher stats as said.

It could also have the "VictoryEnslavement" flag, so any battle won that a Fascist is included in it takes a slave. Although that has the potential to spiral city sizes out of control.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Fascist anti-machine gunner is fine by me, although it would probably need higher stats as said.

It could also have the "VictoryEnslavement" flag, so any battle won that a Fascist is included in it takes a slave. Although that has the potential to spiral city sizes out of control.

Didn't think of that. Thats actually a good, something to temper the "conquest govt" with besides city limits and it fits historically.

I also have my xenophobic code where the population of a city that is a different citystyle than the owner will kill a population but only to a third of the population (IIRC)

[HuangShang]

its too late for slaves...

[Maquiladora]

Well it is for standard slaves, as the Emancipation wonder frees them all.

These would be prisoners of war. I'm not sure how we would implement that, or if we'd want to. Perhaps POWs (acting as a different kind of slave) given to the city until peace is declared with that civ, but this might require national identity of each slave, and it gets more complex.

[Ekmek]

maybe we can split emancipation act code sot free slaves but doesnt prevent slaves. right now they are linked.

[Ekmek]

code now split (see wonders thread)

emancipation is now a one shot (I assume). so we can add other emancipation wonders as well.