DESIGN: The Data

[Peter Triggs]

I suspect that there's folks around here who would like to participate in the project but are held back because of lack of programming experience. Well, it seems to me that there's a lot of work that could be done on the data files that doesn't require this experience. Here's a few initial thoughts.

1) The Sprite Database. When you download one of the bigger mods, a lot of the megs consists of sprites. Surely we should be able to organize this better so that everything is standardized and there's sprite database on Poly. Or something. Basically, you should only need to download a sprite once.

2) Units/Improvements/Wonders. Are we really going to stick with the vanilla types? Lot's of room for discussion here.

[Maquiladora]

1. Sounds like a good idea.

2. Add nothing new until we know what we have is perfectly balanced, IMHO.

[Tamerlin]

Re: DESIGN: The Data

Originally posted by Peter Triggs
I suspect that there's folks around here who would like to participate in the project but are held back because of lack of programming experience.

True, I must admit this is my case. For the moment, the only things I can do are a bit of translation, giving my opinion (though I am an awful conservatist as far as CtP2 is concerned) and some playtesting though I don't have much time these days (many players start and end games before I can even reach the middle of mine, so my experience is not really interesting for the community).

I would be glad to help though.

2) Units/Improvements/Wonders. Are we really going to stick with the vanilla types? Lot's of room for discussion here.

I agree with Maquiladora on this ground, besides this I am not generally enthusiastic over the various ideas presented in the Design threads though some are really good. I really like CtP2 as it is, to the exception of the AI that needs to be improved of course. One thing I really like in CtP2 is that it is NOT like Civ2 or even Civ3 and I am not very pleased each time someone insists on adapting a Civ3 concept to CtP2. Of course some are good (aerial units management) and I would not be against some of them but I don't like many others (like strategical resources) and there are some I really find dumb (Workers and placing every pop manually in each city).

But moreover what I really like with CtP2 is that it is a real grand strategy game where you have the perfect balance between micro and macromanagement. IMO, there is too much micromanagement in Civ3 and many of the ideas detailed in the Design threads add some micromanagement or add tactical elements in a grand strategy game, there is a kind of scale conflict. This is the reason why I am regularly asking for major changes to be optional when you start a new game. I know, as I said it before I am an awful conservatist as soon as CtP2 is concerned.

Of course, it all boils down to preferences and these are only mines.

That said I would like to work on the SAP2 Updater2 so that it can be used with the playtest files. IMO this does not represent a big work, I think I only have to check for SAP2 specific datas, to remove or adapt them (if needed and possible of course) and to update some .txt files (strings).

As far as I can remember adding new units will be very easy...

[J Bytheway]

For issue 1 - if we stick with the present sprite naming system we'll certainly have to standardise the sprites' numbering. A better solution would be to free up the naming system so sprites can have natural names which are much less likely to clash. I don't think anyone did get around to working on removing the sprite limit in the end...

I guess the simplest method to reduce downloads would be to offer a single sprite download with all the sprites, and ask people to download it with any of the mods. If we want to try something a little more complicated we could offer all the sprites as seperate zips and provide some download manager to fetch the ones that you need for you. This might be getting a little too technical...

[Immortal Wombat]

Well I've got the sprites all numbered, listed and iconed. They're still sitting in the depot (which appears to be FUBARed at the moment) Although if there's an MySQL database going spare it would make it much easier to search for a specific file - by name, number, author, animation, etc. Or I can carry on doing it the old fashioned html way with 5 files to alter for each new sprite.

And if the limit could be removed, or put up to say 300, 350 it would be excellent.

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
which appears to be FUBARed at the moment)

What is FUBAR? I know I heard it before but I don't know it anymore ..........

[child of Thor]

FUBAR = [polite translation!] Broken, 'messed' Up Beyond All Recognition.

And I kind of sympathise with Tamerlin's feelings on CTP2 - still i'm sure the main effort is to get the origonal game working as well and bug free as possible, all the Design threads are mostly 'fun' what if suggestions.

I'm sure some of them will get implemented eventualy, it would be a shame to waste having the source code if we dont try a few of our collective CTP2 dreams out?

[Gilgamensch]

Thanks CoT As I hardly every use it it slipt out of my mind ..............

[Immortal Wombat]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=2884288#post2884288

[Tamerlin]

Peter, I have an Updater2 question...

I am currently working on the Updater2 so that we can use it with the playtest files.

I have just realised there isn't a main.slc file in the original game like the APOL_main.slc in the SAP2. Do I simply have to add the names of the Updater2 files in the orig_gamefile.txt located in the Default/Gamedata folder (does not sound to me as the right thing to do).

I have also spotted a file named script.slc where it seems possible to add new .slc files, I suppose that it is rather here that I have to add the famous #include "Updater2.slc" line.

[Peter Triggs]

Yes, you add the include line in script.slc.

I've been testing Call to Conquest with the Debug exe. The only problem I had was that it wouldn't update units that weren't in the original game, but I think I've fixed that. It shouldn't affect what you want to do.

[Tamerlin]

Thanks for your quick reply Peter...

[Martin Gühmann]

And that's why GoodMod doesn't have such a whatever_main.slc. Or what should I do, adding a GM1_CM2_main.slc, a GM1_APOL_main.slc a GM1_MM2_main.slc and as I supported Cradle a GM1_CRA_main.slc and there are still some more in Cradle for each a main.slc. And finally I would need to include them in the script.slc anyway. So a GM1_CM2_script.slc, a GM1_APOL_script.slc, a GM1_MM2_script.slc and so on.... So many files.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

I have finished to adapt the SAP2 unit Updater2 for the CtP2 playtest, I have made a quick test with the previous playtest version and it seems to run properly.

I will now install the latest playtest version and start a new game with the unit Updater2 in order to test it more seriously.