DESIGN: Possible alterations to movement -- the history discussion

[The Big Mc]

yes a translation would be good

Just remember history is written by the victors as such the Romans were glorified in many counters as one of the first truly civilised people.

Big shock for a lot of people when they found Pompeii.

[Gilgamensch]

Big MC,

you want to say you can't read latin either ? The second link shows the 'orginial' documents

You just want this text I posted translated or more?

[The Big Mc]

Just a translation

can’t read Latin, French, German, English, Russian, Japanese, Chinese

[Gilgamensch]

Im Jahre 9 n.Chr. vernichteten unter der Führung des cheruskischen Adeligen und römischen Bürgers Arminius rheinwesergermanische Stammesverbände (Cherusker, Brukterer, Marser, Chatten) das unter dem Oberbefehl des Varus stehende Heer von insgesamt 3 Legionen, 3 Alen/Reitereinheiten und 6 Kohorten/Infanterieeinheiten sowie den zugehörigen Troß.

In the year 9 A.C. under the lead of the 'ceruksien' (?) royal and roman citizen Arminius several tribes (Cherusker, Bruktere......) annihilated the army under the lead of Varus, containing 3 legions, 3 Alen/mounted unit(kind of cavalry) and 6 Cohorts/Infrantry and the belonging support.

you need more? Then please past which part

[Locutus]

Gigl, Gigl, don't tell me my German is actually better than yours

In the year 9 A.D. an army of 3 Legions, 3 Alae (Cavalry units), 6 Cohorts ([Auxiliary] Infantry Units) and their support troops under the command of [Publius Quinctilius] Varus was destroyed by an alliance of Teutonic tribes (Cherusci, Bructeri, Marsi, Sugambri) led by the Cherusci noble and Roman citizen Armenius.

I apologize for the impossible sentence structure -- it's still German (It's a small miracle the author actually placed the verb at the start of the sentence )

[Gilgamensch]

Locutus, I admit............my German starts to get horrible

But I have one excuse: I did it in a hurry I must also admit, that the German they used there is a bit unusual.........

[Immortal Wombat]

So is the conclusion to be made that after all that, the present assumed model of 1 unit = 10'000 men is fairly sensible until the invention of firearms?

(And in that case, how many Triremes / Ships of the Line are there in one unit of each? )

[Gilgamensch]

10k is only for like the roman time.

Early egyptian had actually smaller armies.

And later they were actually getting far bigger (1 & 2 WW).

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Early egyptian had actually smaller armies.

Like I said, in Pharaoinc times the standard Egyptian unit was 5,000 men.

But generally speaking it's true that the further back you go, the smaller the units get. The standing army of Sumerian city states was some 700 men (though during times of war armies could number in the thousands as well). Sargon of Akkad even had a standing army of 5,500 men around 2300 BC -- but that was pretty exceptional for those days (it had to do with the fact that he was almost constantly at war )

[Locutus]

For fleets a different scales should be used. I'm not exactly a navel expert, but intuitively I'd say a single (classical age) naval unit should probably represent some 50 ships (and since a trireme can have about 200 men onboard, that means it represents some 10,000 men as wel).

[The Big Mc]

Ships are bad.

For gun powder aged ships I would say we should have a unit representing three ships .

Columbus had three ships. There’s a few ships on the beginning of the fmv etc.

Same for modern age ships three ships were engaged in the battle of the river plate.

[SMIFFGIG]

yes but big mc, columbus was an explorer. He was not part of a military fleet of ships

[The Big Mc]

yes he was a scout but what do we want to do with are units now and again

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by Locutus
For fleets a different scales should be used. I'm not exactly a navel expert, but intuitively I'd say a single (classical age) naval unit should probably represent some 50 ships (and since a trireme can have about 200 men onboard, that means it represents some 10,000 men as wel).

The biggest ship-battle I recall was named "the battle of 1000 ships" and it was involving the greeks (AGAIN.....).
Although somewhere I read that there were some major battles in Asia as well.

Then we had the defeat of the Armada, which also involved a fairly huge amount of ships.

All the rest, AFAIR, consisted of less than 100 ships.

Even like the hunt for the bismark never had more than 10 ships active. There were far more involved, but never active at the same time.

So it could be save to assume that after the invention of ironclad, each icon represents a single ship. (get's a bit problematic for transports though.........)

For the time before: That is really depending on the type of ships

Most known for the caribean see were the spanish galleons and the fleets were somewhere between 1 and 10 strong. AFAIR the biggest battle there involved ~20 war galleons.

[SMIFFGIG]

When the Persians attacked greece, this involved MUCH more than 100 ships, i would say its closer to 1000
So theres a second example for ya.