Announcement

**Locutus** · March 12, 2004, 09:33

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
The file by Fin Fahey is only partially 'useful'. Some files are covered some others aren't.

And Access is even less known as Excel or similar.

Yes, and it's for CtP1 too. But it can be modified and expanded if one would be interested in using it.

It is just an example of something that DOES work. There are many others I'm sure.

The reason why I suggested to move to csv is, that a lot of programs alow import/export of csv without any problem. CSV was/is a 'standard' transfer format, even for databases.

It's not standard for 90% of PC users. CSV is non-standard for normal PC users, and a pain to edit unless you have a database program, which again, a lot of people don't.

If you work in IT or related business you'll have no problems with it (assuming you're willing to use such software, which I for one am not, or only as an addition to curent system) but the strength of the CtP series is exactly that the majority of modmakers doesn't and is still capable of editing the game in amazing ways.

Yes you can, but that would ultimitvly restrict it only to excel.

Well, you're the one who's so keen on using Excel

But if you want to make it useful for all programs, simply code it in PHP or some other external scripting language. But most database programs I've worked with (which granted aren't terribly large in number) can handle custom-formats fairly easily, so they wouldn't need it.

don't really agree, have you ever tried to find units with certain values/restrictions ? Like which units are ignoring ZOC?

That's really fairly easy, if you have a decent text editor and know how to use it. Doing that in Excel requires more extensive knowledge of the program than most Excel users I know have (and I'm not even counting the people who don't know Excel at all).

I think everyone can learn in 2 minutes (even if via help) how to import/export a csv-file. So that sounds a bit off.

It's not just the import, it's using a spreadsheet or database program. You're assuming everyone who uses PCs is as experienced as you are, which I can assure you is not the case. One simple example: my mom has worked with Excel every day for the past 3 years at least (probably longer) and followed several courses before she started to use it, but a simple thing such as sorting a row or column in alphabetical order I have to explain to her again and again every time she needs to do it. My dad and most of my mom's collegues are even worse. As simple as the tasks you describe are to you and me, for plenty of people they're pretty darn complicated...

Modmaking should have a low threshold, which non-standard file formats and complicated editors such as your CSV and Excel combo and also e.g. Civ3 formats don't offer. There's a good reason why CtP2 is superior to that game (more than one actually

) and I'd like to keep it that way.

CSV would not prevent people from being able to modify it with a text-editor.

I'm sorry, but THIS:

##_UNIT_0;UNIT_ABOLITIONIST;{;Description;DESCRIPT
ION_UNIT_ABOLITIONIST;DefaultIcon;ICON_UNIT_ABOLIT
IONIST;DefaultSprite;SPRITE_ABOLITIONIST;Category;
;UNIT_CATEGORY_SPECIAL;Attack;0;Defense;10;ZBRange
Attack;0;Firepower;1;Armor;1;MaxHP;10;ShieldCost;5
40;PowerPoints;250;ShieldHunger;5;FoodHunger;0;Max
MovePoints;300;VisionRange;1;EnableAdvance;ADVANCE
_CLASSICAL_EDUCATION;ActiveDefenseRange;0;LossMove
ToDmgNone;MaxFuel;0;IgnoreZOC;NoZoc;CanBeExpelled;
CantCaptureCity;NoSlaves;IsSpecialForces;Civilian;
SoundSelect1;SOUND_SELECT1_ABOLITIONIST;SoundSelec
t2;SOUND_SELECT2_ABOLITIONIST;SoundMove;SOUND_MOVE
_ABOLITIONIST;SoundAcknowledge;SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_A
BOLITIONIST;SoundCantMove;SOUND_CANTMOVE_ABOLITION
IST;SoundAttack;SOUND_ATTACK_ABOLITIONIST;SoundWor
k;SOUND_WORK_ABOLITIONIST;SoundVictory;SOUND_VICTO
RY_ABOLITIONIST;SoundDeath;SOUND_DEATH_ABOLITIONIS
T;CanSee:;Standard;CanSee:;Stealth;MovementType:;L
and;MovementType:;Mountain;Size:;Small;VisionClass
:;Stealth;SlaveUprising;{;;;;Sound;SOUND_ID_SLAVE_
UPRISING;;;;Effect;SPECEFFECT_SLAVE_UPRISING;};Und
ergroundRailway;{;;;;Chance;0.75;;;;DeathChance;0. 5;;;;Sound;SOUND_ID_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY;;;;Effect;
SPECEFFECT_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY;};};;

is NOT reasonably editable in a text file. Especially not if you multiply that by 200, for every unit in the game.

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see the added value of a powerful database program to manage all that data and if the option was there, I would use it myself. But it should never be at the expense of more basic methods.

**Gilgamensch** · March 12, 2004, 09:57

My dad and most of my mom's collegues are even worse.

This sounds scary!!!!!!!!!! Are we so advanced or ahm.........

CSV is non-standard for normal PC users, and a pain to edit unless you have a database program, which again, a lot of people don't.

Are we here really normal PC-users

?

but the strength of the CtP series is exactly that the majority of modmakers doesn't and is still capable of editing the game in amazing ways.

This wouldn't change.

That's really fairly easy, if you have a decent text editor and know how to use it

is NOT reasonably editable in a text file

Contradiction in it's own

? If you have a decent text editor it doesn't matter how the file is structured. So this is a point against your opinion.
Also the: if you know how to use it.

Especially not if you multiply that by 200

Why you think I thought of having it in csv. It wouldn't matter. If you want to modify 200 units to balance them better, it will be hell of a job to scroll all the time up and down to check & balance values. Like with the Armor values...............

The only difference I am kind of proposing is to change it from vertical to horizontal, so where is the difference for modders? Or you never learned how to read a LINE ?

OK, another thing what would be changed is that unused fields would be filled in (extra comma).

CSV and Excel combo

CSV not EXCEL. Excel is a tool to create CSV, like your favourite text-editor.......Jesus..............

**Locutus** · March 12, 2004, 10:26

The only difference I am kind of proposing is to change it from vertical to horizontal, so where is the difference for modders? Or you never learned how to read a LINE ?

Okay, let's put it this way: if you don't have Excel or whatever, in which of these two sections is it easier to see what the movement types of these 5 units are (sorry, the first isn't exactly CSV because I couldn't be arsed to convert it fully, but it's close enough):

## UNIT 0,UNIT_ABOLITIONIST {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ABOLITIONIST, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ABOLITIONIST, DefaultSprite SPRITE_ABOLITIONIST, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_SPECIAL, Attack 0, Defense 10, ZBRangeAttack 0, Firepower 1, Armor 1, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 540, PowerPoints 250, ShieldHunger 5, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 300, VisionRange 1, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_CLASSICAL_EDUCATION, ActiveDefenseRange 0, LossMoveToDmgNone, MaxFuel 0, IgnoreZOC, NoZoc, CanBeExpelled, CantCaptureCity, NoSlaves, IsSpecialForces, Civilian, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ABOLITIONIST, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ABOLITIONIST, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ABOLITIONIST, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ABOLITIONIST, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ABOLITIONIST, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ABOLITIONIST, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ABOLITIONIST, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ABOLITIONIST, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ABOLITIONIST,, CanSee: Standard, CanSee: Stealth, MovementType: Land, MovementType: Mountain, Size: Small, VisionClass: Stealth,, SlaveUprising {, Sound SOUND_ID_SLAVE_UPRISING, Effect SPECEFFECT_SLAVE_UPRISING, },, UndergroundRailway {, Chance 0.75, DeathChance 0.5, Sound SOUND_ID_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY, Effect SPECEFFECT_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY, },},,############################################# ###############,,##
UNIT 1,UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, DefaultSprite SPRITE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_NAVAL, Attack 25, Defense 30, ZBRangeAttack 25, Firepower 1, Armor 1, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 3000, PowerPoints 3000, ShieldHunger 30, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 400, VisionRange 3, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_NAVAL_AVIATION, BombRounds 10, BombardRange 1, ActiveDefenseRange 1, ActiveDefenseOnlyWhenCarryingEnablers, LossMoveToDmgNone, MaxFuel 0, CanExpel, CanPillage, CanPirate, CantCaptureCity, ExertsMartialLaw, DeathEffectsHappy, Explodes, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER,, CanAttack: Sea, CanAttack: ShallowWater, CanCarry: MedAir, CanCarry: SmallAir, CanSee: Standard, Defend: Air, MovementType: Sea, MovementType: ShallowWater, Size: Large, VisionClass: Standard,, CanReform {, Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY, Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY, },, CargoData {, MaxCargo 5, Load SOUND_ID_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER_LOAD, Unload SOUND_ID_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER_UNLOAD, },},,############################################# ###############,,##
UNIT 2,UNIT_ARCHER {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ARCHER, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ARCHER, DefaultSprite SPRITE_ARCHER, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_RANGED, Attack 10, Defense 10, ZBRangeAttack 20, Firepower 1, Armor 1, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 150, PowerPoints 100, ShieldHunger 1, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 100, VisionRange 2, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_BALLISTICS, ObsoleteAdvance ADVANCE_CANNON_MAKING, ActiveDefenseRange 0, LossMoveToDmgNone, MaxFuel 0, CanEntrench, CanExpel, CanPillage, CanPirate, ExertsMartialLaw, DeathEffectsHappy, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ARCHER, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ARCHER, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ARCHER, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ARCHER, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ARCHER, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ARCHER, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ARCHER, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ARCHER, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ARCHER,, CanAttack: Land, CanAttack: Mountain, CanSee: Standard, MovementType: Land, MovementType: Mountain, Size: Small, VisionClass: Standard,, CanReform {, Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY, Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY, },},,############################################# ###############,,##
UNIT 3,UNIT_ARTILLERY {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ARTILLERY, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ARTILLERY, DefaultSprite SPRITE_ARTILLERY, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_RANGED, Attack 10, Defense 20, ZBRangeAttack 70, Firepower 3, Armor 2, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 1500, PowerPoints 1200, ShieldHunger 15, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 200, VisionRange 2, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_EXPLOSIVES, BombRounds 5, BombardRange 1, ActiveDefenseRange 0, LossMoveToDmgNone, MaxFuel 0, CanEntrench, CanExpel, CanPillage, CanPirate, ExertsMartialLaw, DeathEffectsHappy, Explodes, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ARTILLERY, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ARTILLERY, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ARTILLERY, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ARTILLERY, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ARTILLERY, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ARTILLERY, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ARTILLERY, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ARTILLERY, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ARTILLERY,, CanAttack: Air, CanAttack: Land, CanAttack: Mountain, CanBombard: Land, CanBombard: Mountain, CanBombard: Water, CanSee: Standard, MovementType: Land, MovementType: Mountain, Size: Medium, VisionClass: Standard,, CanReform {, Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY, Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY, },},,############################################# ###############,,##
UNIT 4,UNIT_BATTLESHIP {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_BATTLESHIP, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_BATTLESHIP, DefaultSprite SPRITE_BATTLESHIP, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_NAVAL, Attack 60, Defense 50, ZBRangeAttack 60, Firepower 4, Armor 3, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 3500, PowerPoints 2000, ShieldHunger 35, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 500, VisionRange 3, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_ADV_NAVAL_TACTICS, BombRounds 5, BombardRange 1, ActiveDefenseRange 0, LossMoveToDmgNone, MaxFuel 0, CanExpel, CanPillage, CanPirate, CantCaptureCity, ExertsMartialLaw, DeathEffectsHappy, Explodes, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_BATTLESHIP, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_BATTLESHIP, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_BATTLESHIP, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_BATTLESHIP, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_BATTLESHIP, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_BATTLESHIP, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_BATTLESHIP, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_BATTLESHIP, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_BATTLESHIP,, CanAttack: Sea, CanAttack: ShallowWater, CanBombard: Land, CanBombard: Mountain, CanBombard: Water, CanSee: Standard, MovementType: Sea, MovementType: ShallowWater, Size: Large, VisionClass: Standard,, CanReform {, Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY, Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY, },},,############################################# ###############,,##
UNIT 5,UNIT_BOMBER {, Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_BOMBER, DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_BOMBER, DefaultSprite SPRITE_BOMBER, Category UNIT_CATEGORY_AERIAL, Attack 30, Defense 30, ZBRangeAttack 60, Firepower 3, Armor 2, MaxHP 10, ShieldCost 2250, PowerPoints 3000, ShieldHunger 22, FoodHunger 0, MaxMovePoints 1000, VisionRange 2, EnableAdvance ADVANCE_JET_PROPULSION, ObsoleteAdvance ADVANCE_ADVANCED_COMPOSITES, BombRounds 5, BombardRange 1, ActiveDefenseRange 0, LossMoveToDmgNone, NoFuelThenCrash, MaxFuel 5000, IgnoreZOC, NoZoc, CantCaptureCity, DeathEffectsHappy, Explodes, SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_BOMBER, SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_BOMBER, SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_BOMBER, SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_BOMBER, SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_BOMBER, SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_BOMBER, SoundWork SOUND_WORK_BOMBER, SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_BOMBER, SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_BOMBER,, CanAttack: Air, CanAttack: Land, CanAttack: Mountain, CanAttack: Sea, CanAttack: ShallowWater, CanBombard: Land, CanBombard: Mountain, CanBombard: Water, CanCarry: SmallAir, CanSee: Standard, MovementType: Air, Size: Medium, VisionClass: Standard,, CargoData {, MaxCargo 1, Load SOUND_ID_BOMBER_LOAD, Unload SOUND_ID_BOMBER_UNLOAD, },},

or

## UNIT 0
UNIT_ABOLITIONIST {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
DefaultSprite SPRITE_ABOLITIONIST
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_SPECIAL
Attack 0
Defense 10
ZBRangeAttack 0
Firepower 1
Armor 1
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 540
PowerPoints 250
ShieldHunger 5
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 300
VisionRange 1
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_CLASSICAL_EDUCATION
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
IgnoreZOC
NoZoc
CanBeExpelled
CantCaptureCity
NoSlaves
IsSpecialForces
Civilian
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ABOLITIONIST
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ABOLITIONIST
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ABOLITIONIST
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ABOLITIONIST
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ABOLITIONIST
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ABOLITIONIST
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ABOLITIONIST
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ABOLITIONIST
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ABOLITIONIST

CanSee: Standard
CanSee: Stealth
MovementType: Land
MovementType: Mountain
Size: Small
VisionClass: Stealth

SlaveUprising {
Sound SOUND_ID_SLAVE_UPRISING
Effect SPECEFFECT_SLAVE_UPRISING
}

UndergroundRailway {
Chance 0.75
DeathChance 0.5
Sound SOUND_ID_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY
Effect SPECEFFECT_UNDERGROUND_RAILWAY
}
}

################################################## ##########

## UNIT 1
UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
DefaultSprite SPRITE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_NAVAL
Attack 25
Defense 30
ZBRangeAttack 25
Firepower 1
Armor 1
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 3000
PowerPoints 3000
ShieldHunger 30
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 400
VisionRange 3
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_NAVAL_AVIATION
BombRounds 10
BombardRange 1
ActiveDefenseRange 1
ActiveDefenseOnlyWhenCarryingEnablers
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
CanExpel
CanPillage
CanPirate
CantCaptureCity
ExertsMartialLaw
DeathEffectsHappy
Explodes
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER

CanAttack: Sea
CanAttack: ShallowWater
CanCarry: MedAir
CanCarry: SmallAir
CanSee: Standard
Defend: Air
MovementType: Sea
MovementType: ShallowWater
Size: Large
VisionClass: Standard

CanReform {
Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY
Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY
}

CargoData {
MaxCargo 5
Load SOUND_ID_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER_LOAD
Unload SOUND_ID_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER_UNLOAD
}
}

################################################## ##########

## UNIT 2
UNIT_ARCHER {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ARCHER
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ARCHER
DefaultSprite SPRITE_ARCHER
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_RANGED
Attack 10
Defense 10
ZBRangeAttack 20
Firepower 1
Armor 1
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 150
PowerPoints 100
ShieldHunger 1
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 100
VisionRange 2
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_BALLISTICS
ObsoleteAdvance ADVANCE_CANNON_MAKING
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
CanEntrench
CanExpel
CanPillage
CanPirate
ExertsMartialLaw
DeathEffectsHappy
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ARCHER
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ARCHER
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ARCHER
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ARCHER
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ARCHER
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ARCHER
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ARCHER
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ARCHER
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ARCHER

CanAttack: Land
CanAttack: Mountain
CanSee: Standard
MovementType: Land
MovementType: Mountain
Size: Small
VisionClass: Standard

CanReform {
Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY
Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY
}
}

################################################## ##########

## UNIT 3
UNIT_ARTILLERY {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_ARTILLERY
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_ARTILLERY
DefaultSprite SPRITE_ARTILLERY
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_RANGED
Attack 10
Defense 20
ZBRangeAttack 70
Firepower 3
Armor 2
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 1500
PowerPoints 1200
ShieldHunger 15
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 200
VisionRange 2
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_EXPLOSIVES
BombRounds 5
BombardRange 1
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
CanEntrench
CanExpel
CanPillage
CanPirate
ExertsMartialLaw
DeathEffectsHappy
Explodes
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_ARTILLERY
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_ARTILLERY
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_ARTILLERY
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_ARTILLERY
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_ARTILLERY
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_ARTILLERY
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_ARTILLERY
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_ARTILLERY
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_ARTILLERY

CanAttack: Air
CanAttack: Land
CanAttack: Mountain
CanBombard: Land
CanBombard: Mountain
CanBombard: Water
CanSee: Standard
MovementType: Land
MovementType: Mountain
Size: Medium
VisionClass: Standard

CanReform {
Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY
Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY
}
}

################################################## ##########

## UNIT 4
UNIT_BATTLESHIP {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_BATTLESHIP
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_BATTLESHIP
DefaultSprite SPRITE_BATTLESHIP
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_NAVAL
Attack 60
Defense 50
ZBRangeAttack 60
Firepower 4
Armor 3
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 3500
PowerPoints 2000
ShieldHunger 35
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 500
VisionRange 3
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_ADV_NAVAL_TACTICS
BombRounds 5
BombardRange 1
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
MaxFuel 0
CanExpel
CanPillage
CanPirate
CantCaptureCity
ExertsMartialLaw
DeathEffectsHappy
Explodes
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_BATTLESHIP
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_BATTLESHIP
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_BATTLESHIP
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_BATTLESHIP
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_BATTLESHIP
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_BATTLESHIP
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_BATTLESHIP
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_BATTLESHIP
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_BATTLESHIP

CanAttack: Sea
CanAttack: ShallowWater
CanBombard: Land
CanBombard: Mountain
CanBombard: Water
CanSee: Standard
MovementType: Sea
MovementType: ShallowWater
Size: Large
VisionClass: Standard

CanReform {
Sound SOUND_ID_REFORM_CITY
Effect SPECEFFECT_REFORMCITY
}
}

################################################## ##########

## UNIT 5
UNIT_BOMBER {
Description DESCRIPTION_UNIT_BOMBER
DefaultIcon ICON_UNIT_BOMBER
DefaultSprite SPRITE_BOMBER
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_AERIAL
Attack 30
Defense 30
ZBRangeAttack 60
Firepower 3
Armor 2
MaxHP 10
ShieldCost 2250
PowerPoints 3000
ShieldHunger 22
FoodHunger 0
MaxMovePoints 1000
VisionRange 2
EnableAdvance ADVANCE_JET_PROPULSION
ObsoleteAdvance ADVANCE_ADVANCED_COMPOSITES
BombRounds 5
BombardRange 1
ActiveDefenseRange 0
LossMoveToDmgNone
NoFuelThenCrash
MaxFuel 5000
IgnoreZOC
NoZoc
CantCaptureCity
DeathEffectsHappy
Explodes
SoundSelect1 SOUND_SELECT1_BOMBER
SoundSelect2 SOUND_SELECT2_BOMBER
SoundMove SOUND_MOVE_BOMBER
SoundAcknowledge SOUND_ACKNOWLEDGE_BOMBER
SoundCantMove SOUND_CANTMOVE_BOMBER
SoundAttack SOUND_ATTACK_BOMBER
SoundWork SOUND_WORK_BOMBER
SoundVictory SOUND_VICTORY_BOMBER
SoundDeath SOUND_DEATH_BOMBER

CanAttack: Air
CanAttack: Land
CanAttack: Mountain
CanAttack: Sea
CanAttack: ShallowWater
CanBombard: Land
CanBombard: Mountain
CanBombard: Water
CanCarry: SmallAir
CanSee: Standard
MovementType: Air
Size: Medium
VisionClass: Standard

CargoData {
MaxCargo 1
Load SOUND_ID_BOMBER_LOAD
Unload SOUND_ID_BOMBER_UNLOAD
}
}

################################################## ##########

**Gilgamensch** · March 12, 2004, 10:41

Shugar...........wrong key pressed.........

OK, if you know your text-editor it doesn't really matter. For this somebody invented the search-function (Normally either F3 or CTRL-F) and you find it easily.

So what?

And taking your example:

Now compare 10 units at the same time, what is easier? Importing it into Excel (or whatever) or scrolling through?

**MrBaggins** · March 12, 2004, 11:24

Scrolling through... particularly when you can search for what you're looking for in a text editor.

**J Bytheway** · March 12, 2004, 11:25

I'm not advocating such a change, but if you're going to change the text files into another format, then I would suggest that you use XML. That will be just as nice to look at - in fact I'm sure there are XML formatters around which can rearrange the content into your preffered scheme of indentation, etc. Also, XML should be well supported by just about anything you might want to import the data into (except possibly Excel...) and standard libraries are available for most programming languages (in particular we could use them in the CTP2 code itself).

From writing CTPEd, I know that the present scheme is rather harder to parse naively than you might at first assume, but with the aid of a lexer generator (and even more so with the aid of a parser generator) it would be much easier. The biggest problem I encountered, however, is that there are a few files which do not fit into the general format, and CTPEd still doesn't support them for that reason. Standardising the format of those would be a very useful change.

**Locutus** · March 12, 2004, 11:33

Gilg,

Scrolling, no contest. I suspect you don't work with text files much...

John,
XML -- now that I could support

**Gilgamensch** · March 12, 2004, 11:35

J Bytheway,

Just checked

(except possibly Excel...)

No it does support it and it would be still readable for people like Locutus.

Standardising the format of those would be a very useful change.

That was another intention of mine as well.

**Peter Triggs** · March 12, 2004, 14:18

I'd take a lot of convincing that we need to switch away from the existing set-up. For one thing:

Apolyton Civilization Site

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101296

**Martin Gühmann** · March 12, 2004, 16:53

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
OK, if you know your text-editor it doesn't really matter. For this somebody invented the search-function (Normally either F3 or CTRL-F) and you find it easily.

Year I have to use the search function to find something in the unit discription, instead of going through the entry and see oh that's there and finnally I added to my goods.txt comments and outcommented sections, so how do you preserve them with your format change?

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Now compare 10 units at the same time, what is easier? Importing it into Excel (or whatever) or scrolling through?

And why you don't write a program that does the conversion forth and back for you?

And another thing you have to consider is that it is a lot of work to rewrite the existing parser then writing a program that does the forth and back conversion for.

And another note how do you convert something like this:

Code:

## 42 ##########################################################

TILEIMP_LAND_GOOD_TWO{
   Icon ICON_GOOD_ARCTIC_MOUNTAIN_TWO
   Tooltip TOOLTIP_TILEIMP_SELECT_FARM1_BUTTON
   Statusbar STATUSBAR_TILEIMP_SELECT_TUNNEL_BUTTON
   Sound SOUND_ID_ROAD_3
   Level 4
   Class:OceanATM
   GLHidden

   ConstructionTiles 2
   ConstructionTiles 2
   ConstructionTiles 2

   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_BEACH
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_DEEP
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_KELP
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_REEF
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_RIFT
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_SHALLOW
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_SHELF
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_TRENCH
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_WATER_VOLCANO
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_TUNDRA #"????"
   CantBuildOn TERRAIN_DEAD

   TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_FOREST #"Bear"

      BonusFood 10
      BonusGold 5
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_HILL #"Grapes"

      BonusFood 5
      BonusGold 5
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_JUNGLE #"Jade"
      Terrain TERRAIN_GRASSLAND #"Tobacco"

      BonusGold 10
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_SWAMP #"Rice"

      BonusFood 15
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_DESERT #"Oil"

      BonusProduction 15
      BonusGold 10
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_PLAINS #"Elephant"

      BonusFood 20
      BonusGold 10
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_WHITE_HILL #"Emeralds"
      Terrain TERRAIN_MOUNTAIN #"Emeralds"

      BonusGold 15
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_WHITE_MOUNTAIN #"Diamonds"

      BonusGold 20
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_BROWN_HILL #"Silver"
      Terrain TERRAIN_BROWN_MOUNTAIN #"Silver"

      BonusProduction 10
      BonusGold 5
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }

  TerrainEffect {
      Terrain TERRAIN_GLACIER #"Walrus"

      BonusFood 10
      BonusProduction 5
      EnableAdvance ADVANCE_SUBNEURAL_ADS
      ProductionCost 0
      ProductionTime 10
      TilesetIndex 2
   }
}

TerrainEffect is a free array you can have as much of them as terrains you have or even more, so how do you want to put it into your table?

Well finally a build in text file editor would be the solution, but that is rather near the bottom of our to do list.

-Martin

**Flinx** · March 12, 2004, 22:57

Re: DESIGN: Changing the units.txt layout

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Hi all,

I was just trying to 'import' the units.txt-file into an excel-file to be able to have an easier overview over the different values. I did it because of the discussion in DESIGN: Armor and HP's. I must admit I am still having a headache to finish it.

My idea, which I would like to propose (and I would be willing to create it) is instead of having the till now structure in the units.txt file changing it to a more moder and user-friendly version, based on Excel.

So instead of really changing it by hand, we could do it via Excel. The changes for this to implement (me thinks) shall be easy.

The file shall be saved as csv, all entries ,even if empty would have a comma-delimiter, so making it easier to check afterwards. This would also allow to re-import into Excel, although I would suggest to have just one master-template (as I said I would be willing to create it, so that you would just select (like: Yes/no, or a value).

Your reason for the suggestion is good; your solution however is not. Using a 'tab' character to separate the value from the variable however would import into EXCEL very nicely with the variables in column A and the values in B, probably would not even break the file for the out-of-the-box game and still be editable in NOTEPAD.

**Flinx** · March 12, 2004, 23:29

Here are the excel formulas to get the result you want:

Import Units.txt into excel so that all the text from each line is in column A

put this formula in column B
=IF(ISERR(FIND(" ",TRIM(A1))),TRIM(A1),LEFT(TRIM(A1),FIND(" ",TRIM(A1))))

put this formula in column C
=IF(ISERR(FIND(" ",TRIM(A1))),"",MID(TRIM(A1),FIND(" ",TRIM(A1))+1,LEN(A1)))

QED.

**Flinx** · March 12, 2004, 23:43

Yup, the tab delimitated file works with the game with no problems, and imports into excel as two columns.

Attached Files

units.txt (89.6 KB, 65 views)

**kaan** · March 13, 2004, 08:30

Originally posted by Flinx
Yup, the tab delimitated file works with the game with no problems, and imports into excel as two columns.

yup it works fine Flinx

**Gilgamensch** · March 13, 2004, 12:28

It is not what I was really looking for.

I wanted to go a step further, than this. So can you can quickly sort it or modify it on a large scale. Not just having the two entries seperated.

Reason: easier to have an overview, easier to modify a lot of entries easily, easier to add new units, easier to compare, easier to sort.

Included is an xml-version, which you could import into like excel as well and is still usuable with a text-editor.

And Flinx: I was only getting errors with your formula.

Attached Files

unitsxls3.zip (52.7 KB, 74 views)

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