GENERAL: Civ 3 vs. CtP2

[Solver]

Agreed with The Big Mc. Surely enough, that would give the AI an advantage. Basically, it would give any defender an advantage, as reinforcementswould be able to move much faster than the attackers. However, it's ridicilously unrealistic. Many battles were even fought for control of a certain road in history...

[Peter Triggs]

The limit for units in each tile is sensible, but is there a way to turn it off in cities - so that you don't have to build by-passes to get armies through/around cities - may also help the AI pathing while at war

Not possible to turn it off for cities, but it is possible to get the AI to build ring roads, which is a very good idea.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Myrddin
I like the effect in Civ3 of not being able to use roads in enemy territory - would this help the AI defend by giving them time to respond to player attacks?

As far as I am concerned this is one of the most stupid things ever implemented in a grand strategy game where a turn range from 1 to 20 years but this is only my opinion and I know that many disagree with me. This is certainly not something I would like to see in CtP2.

Every army has scout units used to clear the path before the units themselves. Though I can understand the benefits of the road can't be used before a friendly unit has reckonned the path along the said road, it should at least cost only one point of movement to move along a road in ennemy territory whatever the surrounding terrain. Moreover this rule should not apply to your ally when its units cross your territory, they should benefit from the full movement.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Myrddin
The limit for units in each tile is sensible, but is there a way to turn it off in cities - so that you don't have to build by-passes to get armies through/around cities - may also help the AI pathing while at war

The unit limit is not the problem as Dale already pointed out in the Miscellaneous Source Findings thread. The problem is if the AI dectects that its originally computed path is blocked it doesn't compute an alternative path or doesn't compute a way to unblock the path if it is the only possible path.

-Martin

[The Big Mc]

Originally posted by Solver
Agreed with The Big Mc.

help help there is something wrong

bottle necks yes hidden machinegun nest on the road yes stopping them no i agree with rail roads and maglev in principle but don't want them stopping in my game

[Solver]

Playing last night. The Ethipoians have had excellent relations with myself for all the game. We have recently signed an alliance, and I am periodically sending them aid packages of gold.

Half the way across the map, I move an obsolete archer. Apparently to the tile where Ethiopians want to move. Their turn, boom, they attack the archer. Idiotic. I sign a cease-fire and peace treaty with them again, though, and diplomacy says that they love me and have faith in my civ.

Doesn't the AI ever want peace ?

[Peter Triggs]

Solver, are you playing a mod?

[Solver]

Indeed, I am playing the SAP version. Haven't played the vanilla version forever, and don't think I will again.

If it's the Frenzy AI code causing this, then it's a shame. AI should definitely try not to attack its allies, especially for stupid things.

Related behaviour that I keep noticing is the AI attacking me in the field 2-3 turns after we sign ceasefire. Like, I beat them really badly, they have 2 minor cities remaining, and I am in full control of their continent. They surrender, but no, their hatred for me is such that they attack again. I let it go and sign ceasefire again. Two turns pass, they attack me yet again... I get irritated and wipe them out completely. Pfft.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Solver
Indeed, I am playing the SAP version. Haven't played the vanilla version forever, and don't think I will again.

If it's the Frenzy AI code causing this, then it's a shame. AI should definitely try not to attack its allies, especially for stupid things.

I think it is not Frenzy but it is rather the AI itsself, basicly Frenzy forms two stacks and move them towards the human player it doesn't contain any code to attack. Well the code that is in and might move the AI into a city doesn't work, the MoveArmy event can be used for attack but not these move order events.

-Martin

[Peter Triggs]

It's got to be FrenzyAI. One of the things it doesn't do is check to see if it should attack you before it attacks you. This code is so buggy that it's really embarrasing that it's still around. I'll bet it's put a lot of people off playing any version of CTP2.

You can, and IMO everyone should, disable it by going into APOL_main.slc and outcommenting it:

///////////////////////////////////
// Scripts to include.
// To disable one just delete 
// it from the below list.
///////////////////////////////////

#include "APOL_capturecity.slc"
#include "APOL_diplomod.slc"
#include "APOL_airunit.slc"
#include "APOL_capital.slc"
#include "APOL_soundfix.slc"
#include "APOL_ComImpSForAIs.slc"
#include "APOL_FortsForAIs.slc"
#include "APOL_KillCityOption.slc"
#include "APOL_pw_cheat.slc"
#include "APOL_slics.slc"
//#include "APOL_frenzy.slc"

#include "APOL_updater2.slc"

You can do the same for other any other mod by looking into it's XXX_script.slc file. After doing this, you'll have to ReloadSlic to make it take effect in the current game you're playing.

If anyone does this, could you please post here and report on any big differences you notice.

Edit: Martin, IIRC, there's a bit in it where it gives orders to armies on the move. I think that's what's doing it.

[Solver]

From Frenzy code:

//	Notes:
//	a) Possible additional AI improvements: Diploatmic states should affect FRENZY state, and AI should never attack
//		allied Humans. (not implmented)
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Peter Triggs
It's got to be FrenzyAI. One of the things it doesn't do is check to see if it should attack you before it attacks you. This code is so buggy that it's really embarrasing that it's still around. I'll bet it's put a lot of people off playing any version of CTP2.

It looks like I did some fixing in that code like adding the IsAtWork, but finally I did my own script, and that was a big different, I saw real AI-AI conquest the first time.

Edit: Martin, IIRC, there's a bit in it where it gives orders to armies on the move. I think that's what's doing it. [/QUOTE]

So instead of just moving the armies to the human enemy it moves its armies to all enemies. So the extinction of a civ is not a random accident anymore, but definatly an event in the game. And my script really attacks city.

Originally posted by Peter Triggs
If anyone does this, could you please post here and report on any big differences you notice.

I doubt when I remove it from my setup it won't be such a difference, because I think my new script has already taken controll. The script is nearly finished only a way to figure out which units are on a transport is missing. Unfortunatly this slic code makes GoodMod crash on a Debug build.

-Martin

[Solver]

Martin, I didn't understand, where is your script? Is that some SLIC code, or something you've been putting into the actual source?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Solver
Martin, I didn't understand, where is your script? Is that some SLIC code, or something you've been putting into the actual source?

Is a slic script, I was working before the release of the source code, it is splitted into two files a function file: MG_Functions.slc and another file for the event handlers: MG_BetterAI.slc. The first file contains 3171 lines the other file contains 1487 lines, well most of the MG_BetterAi.slc is old dead code from a previous version in fact I rewrote all the important stuff in that file. Before the source code release was implementing cross water invasion, unfortunatly my way of dectecting units on transports seems to be a little bit buggy, well it is an exploit of an bug anyway. The last thing I tried was to move units into transports. And the script is only on my harddrive.

-Martin

[Solver]

Will you be finishing and posting it now, or trying to implement it into the source? From the sounds of it, looks really good. AI-AI conquest, and, at least some, naval drops...