CtP2 Source Code Project FAQ

[CapTVK]

I agree with broeman

This is not Open Source. I've just read the EULA and while I acknowledge and commend Activision (and everyone involved making this possible ) for releasing the source to the user (the gamer). When you start to read it it's actually very restrictive. I wouldn't use the term 'shared source' either because it's a bit of a misnomer.

[Locutus]

I agree with you guys as well that this code doesn't qualify as Open Source, especially not using the definition of OSI. IIRC I actually suggested "CtP2-Source Code" as name for this forum but the owners (apparently) decided otherwise.

But I still think the name makes sense, as most people on Apolyton are by comparison PC newbies -- I'm sure a good number of them don't even know what source code is (I know I've had to explain it often enough; hence my explanation in the FAQ). At least the term 'open source' rings a bell for many. Terms like 'shared source' or others would only be confusing.

But broeman raises a very good issue and I will definitely add an issue to the FAQ as soon as I have time to explain this.

[Lovechild]

Actually I think Open Source is tradmarked by the Open Source Initiative - and Shared Source probably belongs Microsoft.

I doubt you can call your project either one legally, and thats even disregard the etics involved with calling such a license Open Source, I would consider it downright insulting to the OSI.

Couldn't you call it CtP2 Revival Project or CtP2: Community Evolution or something like that instead.

Anyways, good luck with your project, I'm looking forward to trying your work on my Linux setup - hopefully you will implement of of the features from Civilization3 when that time comes.

[Locutus]

Open Source with capital letters is trademarked by OSI, open source as a normal word (which we use here) is defined in different ways by different sources. Once again, I agree that by most acceptable definitions this project doesn't qualify as open source, but it does qualify using the dictionairy I have at home, which uses a definition non-ITers would use (though I agree that dictionary ought to be corrected).

Either way, if anyone objects to the term open source (which I can understand, though I can also understand the opposite viewpoint), they'll have to email Markos (markg@apolyton.net) and/or Dan (dan@apolyton.net) about it, I have no control over it.

Anyway, thanks for caring and once again, I'll add an entry to the FAQ this weekend to explain to all that this code is in fact not really open source, even if we call it such.

[broeman]

I maybe have been a bit harsh, but I wanted to provoke a discussion (which seemed to work). It would be fine with me if the project would make a version for linux that uses the original (windows) cd. And at a time, maybe Activision (or the developers) even feel happy about Open Sourcing the code, when the project have contributed much (I haven't got the feeling that they are making a ctp3?).

It could be nice to have a model like Open Office / Star office, where the user can get it for Free or pay for goodies (copyrighted materials, like on the CD). Keep the heads up and succeed your goals!

[Admiral PJ]

I would like to try a true Open source style project with this code, or maybe it would be easier to start from scratch - rewrite a civ game fully.

It would be nice to program new features, like new gamestyles.. such as Battlefield Scenario, where all you have to worry about is your armies, and the whole map is one small battlefield like Waterloo, and every turn lasts 10 seconds realtime, maybe a minute to stop the player going to sleep.

It would be nice to program real time gaming, like civ3 PTW multiplayer simultaneous move.. I don't think ctp has this.


In theory getting this to compile won't be hard, the hard part will be understanding how the code works (and what bits don't work).
You could get the bugs fixed quickest by tracking each of their line error number and working backwards... you don't need to understand all the code.

I think people without the CTP2 CD will soon get the game to work on their systems, maybe with different graphics.
Even if the lawyers don't like this , they can't stop private groups creating this solution.. unless people don't share the working code and slow down progress.

The activision copyright dosen't make sense in this regard.. people can easily make replacement graphics and find what is needed.. it will just take some time to make something nice. They released the source code free, so the game is therefore free.

Maybe activision changed the code so it will be harder to use non CD game gfx etc?

AdmirlalPJ Master Conspiracy Withfinder

[Leland]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ

I think people without the CTP2 CD will soon get the game to work on their systems, maybe with different graphics.
Even if the lawyers don't like this , they can't stop private groups creating this solution.. unless people don't share the working code and slow down progress.

Correct, they can't stop people from doing this. What they can do is sue them afterwards because according to the license distributing the code in a form that doesn't require the original CD is not possible. Besides, if the community decides to take the low road and make their own "pirate" versions of CtP2 and thus depriving Activision of potential profit, every other game publisher might think twice befored giving out their source code. So better play nicely.

The activision copyright dosen't make sense in this regard.. people can easily make replacement graphics and find what is needed.. it will just take some time to make something nice. They released the source code free, so the game is therefore free.

Just like the Windows XP source code you can download off warez site is "free"...

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by Admiral PJ
I would like to try a true Open source style project with this code, or maybe it would be easier to start from scratch - rewrite a civ game fully.

You can't use CtP2 code for your own project. Read up on the licence and you will see why. As for writing something from scratch. I don't recommend it. Most projects that even get out of the starting block crash and burn within in a year. Besides, we already a have a true open source civ: Freeciv .

[edomaur]

Ok.

As an open source coder and a free software (as in speech) zealot, I havoe to say that, after all, it's not interesting at all.

Sorry, but I was really waiting for a Mozilla-like licence, and the only thing i got is a text who need a cd who is not even easy to buy on the market in my country. What kind of "open source" is that ?? I'd like some *detailled* terminology clearing.

[TechWins]

Hey, good luck to all of you that will be working on this. I'm probably going to download it to take a look at it. Maybe this might revitalize my desire to start programming again... of course nothing quite this large.

[gerzson]

We would like to put on the Source to a DVD of a hungarian magazine! Please urgently send me an e-mail, if we mustn't do that! My e-mail is: crovat@mailbox.hu

Thanx!

[Leland]

Originally posted by gerzson
We would like to put on the Source to a DVD of a hungarian magazine! Please urgently send me an e-mail, if we mustn't do that! My e-mail is: ...

Huh? Shouldn't you be taking the trouble of asking Activision whether you can do that, and only then consider distributing it, rather than counting on someone to stop you from breaching the license?



"Hey I want to put a copy of Civ III on Ukranian warez site, email me in five minutes if you don't like this. Thnx."

[Locutus]

gerszon,
You're specifically NOT allowed to distribute the source, unless you have written permission from Activision. So you will have to contact Activision about this matter, before you publish the code.

[Locutus]

DP

[gerzson]

Leland: I think it's not a good example. I don't want to place CtP anywhere whitout any notification, espacially NOT a warez site! I wrote to this forum because I wanted to know who should I ask, to place this code to that DVD!

Locutus: Thank you for your help! I'll ask the about this at the Activision!