DESIGN: CtP2 Source Code released - our actions [brainstorm & discussion]

[Solver]

OK, now that we know that CtP2 source is to come, we obviously need some ideas of what are we going to do. I will get the list of ideas said by other people in a moment.

Everyone who has programming abilitiy and wants to devote something to the project, please post. As you probably know, it's C++ ability that is required. We have few programmers that already know C++, but (as Locutus said), the skilled ones among us are going to catch the essence of it quickly.

I trust that we will need an OTF thread asking for any programmers that would also like to contribute (anyone agree?). I do also believe that Gramphos could be of great usefulness, hope he is interested.

So, here will come some stuff we need to do to this excellent game... and now we can advertise it in Civ 3 forums even more .

[Solver]

So, most people think that the first things to do are getting rid of limits and well-known bugs.

With apologies to everyone who contributed.

Remove the 200 sprite limit (simply put, CtP2 can only use 200 sprites).
Fix inifinite rush-buy bug for MP (this one's evil) [Martin believes rush-buy button should be disabled when it's not your turn]
Fix scenario loding bug (what's that?)
Fix sea city sprites (you know when you look at them)
Fix PBEM, this including adding the human-to-human diplomacy. Already done partially due to mods, so should not be too complex.
[I believe that fixing PBEM is of great importance, that could attract many more to CtP2 realm]
Fix the bug that lets sea units beenfit from undersea tunnels

Also, some general AI improvements have been suggested, but those, IMHO, can wait till we get the worst of the bugs fixed.

More thoughts:

Add interface support for games with more than 8 opponents (that is, so that you can start those without editing text files).
Of course, bring the PBEM and hotseat buttons back on interface by default when those modes work.
Fix the bug where clicking the eye in a dialog box centers on city, but doesn't select it.
Arguable: replace the message tab with something like message icons from CtP1
Arguable: replace Mod-swapper with something in-game. Not a bad idea, but not top priority, IMHO, as the Modswapper works, too.
Arguable: Add ruins to easiest difficulties. Or at least make that an option.
Allow units disbanded from the "unit" screen in city display to contribute to production.
In city manager unit screen, add an indicator for fortified units.
Increase GL "lemur poo" chance from 1% to 95% .
Add interface support for changing player color.
Fix the freeze bug at goody huts at units or advances.

[Maquiladora]

[BUG]

There is also the right click bug, where you can click on open terrain and if the "terrain info" popup doesnt come up it means you clicked on a stealth unit, very crafty.

[mapfi]

As well as the bug that with a unit selected you can point on an enemy city - if the swords appear there are units inside, otherwise not - a very grave bug for MP!

[centrifuge]

...Also how about the crossed swords bug...

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Solver
Fix scenario loding bug (what's that?)

If I remember corectly Ben mentioned that there was a fixed number of scenarios you could have simitanously in the scenario folder that the game would recognize. But I think more important are other problems regarding scenarios.

In the post patched version of CTP2 you have a bug whenever you start a scenario doesn't matter it includes a map or not or just different rhules like just a different colors00.txt you get an extra turn whenever you reload you save game. That means still the same year, no AI got its turn, but the human player got extra science, move points, etc like he would start a new trun.

Originally posted by Solver
Fix PBEM, this including adding the human-to-human diplomacy. Already done partially due to mods, so should not be too complex.

Of course it is done particulary due to mods, but this are only slic workarounds, so there are two ways to continue here first you could provide more slic functions, to make it easier or you could implement it into the source directly. Well the second one could be easier, but not shure.

Originally posted by Solver
Also, some general AI improvements have been suggested, but those, IMHO, can wait till we get the worst of the bugs fixed.

Well AI improvement is needed, the AI needs better skills in tile improving, in city management, like entertainer distribution etc... here it needs the ability to use entertainers and other pops locally instead of just using them globally.

Originally posted by Solver
Of course, bring the PBEM and hotseat buttons back on interface by default when those modes work.

Well to bring them on the screen is just an edit of an *.ldl file, so no source code related problem. The real problem is to make this feature work as supposed.

Originally posted by Solver
Arguable: Add ruins to easiest difficulties. Or at least make that an option.

Well that should be an option button: No Ruins
Speaking of difficuilty levels, I think it should be possible to select more then 6 from a list, so the enterface needs to be changed here from sic buttons to a list box. Adding more levels of difficuilty can be done then in the DiffDB.txt.
I like also to see more then just the for buttons for the Barbarian level, also in a list box instead of a button bank.

Originally posted by Solver
Add interface support for changing player color.

Speaking of colors I hate it always to find my civ in the neighborhood of the orange player, so random distribution of players over the world should be added. I already have a slic function that can permutate a list of numbers randomly. So shouldn't be a too big problem to convert it to C++.

Speaking of random distribution of players, NonRandomCivs should also be an ingame feature and not depending on the difficuilt level you select.

I also want to be able to switch on and off the animation of goods ingame like in CTP1 so that I don't have to edit the userprofile.txt whenever I want to do it.

Well I also mentioned in the Activision thread that I like to see the cheat editor fixed, since the patch using it means that you have to take care that it doesn't switch off pollution.

Also the city tab is not finished, only three buttons work, even if you have more then 3 city styles in the game. Also the icons of these buttons are missing. Changing this requires changing the text files according citystyles and also the UnitIcon.txt should be changed then.

Another problem with this city tab of the cheat editor is, whenever you place a city it is first a size one city, if you don't add a pop it is size zero next turn, if you add a pop it loses its city style you selected.

Also the goods.txt is not finished, I can use the GLHidden flag without any effect, I think only the sound filed and the gold and the sprite filed have some effect. The file needs to be changed so that goods can have terrain boni directly, like in CTP1, and I like also to see that these boni can be pillaged and will be restored after a certain amount of turns like it is now in GoodMod with the TI workaround.

Also tileimps need a terrain fright bonus so that we can add a button to the trade manager for trade route redirection like in CTP1.

Also to the tileimp.txt a field sound should be added so that we don't need this soundfix workaround I wrote anymore. Also more than one construction tileimprovement graphics should be shown ingame like in CTP1. The current setup does suggest it, but it does not work. Only one construction tile improvement graphic is shown.

Also Civ specific characteristics should be added like it was done during the hack contest by Loki for CTP1. That shows us that it is not to difficuilt and can be done within a few days.

I also like to see a slave market and the that slaves and all other pops do have a nationality.

Well maybe there are much more things to do, so far this is my whishlist.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Post removed after Martin's replied... sorry for the interference.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
[BUG] (?)
- Fix the revolution bug (the game crashes when a new civilization is created after a revolution in a city)

That is a bug in Diplomod, but of course the code can be transfered to the ctp2.exe of course in C++.

And by the just one post of this bug is necessary, post here for discussion, post in John's thread for ducumentation.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Sorry Martin I had not understood it like that...

[SMIFFGIG]

Some things that I really really!! wish where int Ctp2 that arent are

Space
Some may argue this was unbalanced, or un-needed. But come on, with the source code comming this could easily be made balanced and made brilliantly fun. I know many people who didnt buy or where dissapointed that Ctp2 due to the fact it no longer had Space. Activision shouldnt have taken the easy route of getting rid of space, but should have improved upon it and made it perfect.

Secondly
Throne Room
This is such a fun option and really makes u feel as if ur achieving things, the C:CtP throne room was fun but rather limited and simplistic, so how about something along the same lines only say a mixture of the Civ2, Civ3 and C:CtP throne rooms, taking the best from all 3.

Culture
Just like in Civ3, only better :P

Improved diplomacy
Like in CtP2 BETA version screenshots and also implementing parts of the Civ3 diplomacy.

Theres much more, but for improved features the above would be brilliant

-SMIFFGIG

[hexagonian]

As a non-programmer, but a Modder, I'm wondering if the proposed fixes and changes are going to cause a host of conflicts with the existing major Mods?

Let's just say I'd hate the thought of rebuilding 'Cradle' from scratch...

[child of Thor]

Few yeah Hex i can see what you mean - still i'm sure with whatever modswaper variant is decided on, people can still run 'Old CTP2'( ) if they want to.

Um the big thing for me at the momment(well the last thing that was perplexing me a while back when i last played it ), is the Diplomacy or lack of in most single player Modded games.
As the aggression has been ramped up to make the game a decent challange, i feel one of the casulties has been the way the Ai's behave in their diplomatic realtions with the player and each other.
I'm guessing it's more a 'tweaking' than a re-write that is needed.
Oh and anything that will help make MP more stable and enjoyable. From the small scale(like ensuring the 'pillage un-owned tile' bug is laid to rest), to large scale wish list type, of enable real human-human diplomacy with all the trimmings

I'm still trying to get over the fact that this is happening!

[Wittlich]

And don't forget:

The CONSTANT RESYNC Bug!!

Sorry, just had to get it off my chest. Though I'm not a programmer (but currently in university for a programming degree - Java though)...back to the subject, the constant resyncing of the game - which always leads to either myself (as host) or my partner (as a player) being kicked out of the game (LAN game) has made CTP2 basically UNPLAYABLE.

I understand that there are alot of different bugs within CTP2, but I have to say that this resync bug is the biggest stumbling block to playing the game.

*Wittlich steps off his soap box*

[stankarp]

How about a priority order for developments.

Say-
1) expanding the limits (units, buildings, tile improvements etc. should be easiest).
2) bugs.
3) new concepts and features.

[MrBaggins]

I think that its going to be important to prioritise the changes, in order of importance (my thoughts... mp bugs, slic bugs, limits, extending functionality,) and working on them in a serial fashion: one after another.

Collaboration with dispersed programmers on an existing project, not initially designed as a collaborative project will only lead to trouble, cvs or not.


My thoughts on the first three things to deal with; resync, rushbuy, and then neutral pillage bugs.

MrBaggins