Massive Single Player scenario

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Son of moose
2) Immortal Wombat's impressive 1500x3000 rendering of it into a CTP2 map

I missed that one. The biggest I have is the 2000x1000. Is there a link?

Originally posted by Son of moose
e.g. As a further expansion to Vince278's: idea, it might be possible (maybe even worthwhile) to place MANY world cities in their appropriate places and play the map as a modern era scenario (i.e. a bit like SuperPower or Supreme Ruler 2010).

That would be a great way to test PC horsepower. Hit end turn and count the minutes/hours/days.

[Son of moose]

Vince278:

Sorry .... my mistake. [I forgot to double-check the link before posting my reply].

This is the link that I was referring to (as mentioned above):

http://ctpmodmakers.250free.com/Wombat/

A 1% area crop of Omni's map (2160 by 1080, two million tiles) because that gives a resolution of 20km, (i.e. a day's march, or the diameter of a city, or approximately life size), and also it has better proportioned shapes of land masses.

Nevertheless, computer performance aside (for the time being), it might be an interesting exercise for someone with the time, expertise and patience to try to create a suitably detailed "political" (i.e. displaying cities and boundaries or equivalent) version of this incredible CTP2 world map.

However, as you state, there would be several problems to overcome:

1) Computer performance .... there was a suggestion (either near the beginning of this thread or in my "other" Civ 4-related thread) of possibly being able to delete or modify some of the ingame scripts in order to speed up the turns a bit. I wonder what effect it would have on the ai performance?

2) I wonder whether there is any way of increasing the maximum number of civs available in a CTP2 scenario .... so that more real-world nations could appear on a possible "political" version of this map?

I fully realise that most of these suggestions are rather esoteric in nature (i.e. they are probably impractical to implement with today's computers). Maybe they just might be a little more feasible in 3 to 5 years time ....

However, these options are imho interesting to discuss ... especially if someone is prepared to "run with them".

After all, thanks to Immortal Wombat, we now have an extremely large (and ambitious) functional map that can potentially be used for a variety of exciting CTP2-related scenarios.

[Btw: What are your computer specs?].

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Son of moose
Nevertheless, computer performance aside (for the time being), it might be an interesting exercise for someone with the time, expertise and patience to try to create a suitably detailed "political" (i.e. displaying cities and boundaries or equivalent) version of this incredible CTP2 world map.

I may just make a scenario with a cleaned up 2160 by 1080 map and set as many starting positions as possible. It may take a while...

I'm not sure if I'll have the energy or time to fill it out with all the modern cities and boundaries.

Originally posted by Son of moose
2) I wonder whether there is any way of increasing the maximum number of civs available in a CTP2 scenario .... so that more real-world nations could appear on a possible "political" version of this map?

The most I've played with was 32. With the Source Code Project more should be possible.

Originally posted by Son of moose
After all, thanks to Immortal Wombat, we now have an extremely large (and ambitious) functional map that can potentially be used for a variety of exciting CTP2-related scenarios.

Yes, many thanks to you, Immortal Wombat, and Omni.

Originally posted by Son of moose
[Btw: What are your computer specs?].

Currently a paltry P3 1GHz 512MB ram GeForce2 Ultra. Hope to trade up sometime soon.

[Son of moose]

Vince278:

I may just make a scenario with a cleaned up 2160 by 1080 map and set as many starting positions as possible. It may take a while...

Good luck!!!

Maybe we might be able to enlist a few other collaborators who might be prepared to join some sort of development team (which I suppose could function somewhat like the more ubiquitous mod teams). This development team could try to implement some really meaningful improvements to the functionality of this amazing CTP2 world map .... such as some of the suggestions forwarded above. Indeed, some truly inspired and creative members might be able to go a whole lot further than this ....

Certainly a 32+++ player map would be a great start.

Maybe the extremely talented Ages of Man team are looking for something extra to do .... as a possible way to showcase their amazing add-on mod.

[Btw: My machine (although a little better) has a 2.0 Celeron processor which, I too, would like to upgrade].

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Vince278
Has anyone thought of cleaning up the map some and creating a scenario with all of the civs and their historical starting places? I may try this but it will take awhile. Playing on the maps will definitely give the PC a workout.

I was planning to clean the map up after my exams next week. I found that since the map is so large, even replacing tiles makes the screen lag somewhat. I would suggest that a far easier way to fix it (or the oceans at least) would be to alter the bitmap directly and reconvert it again. CtP2 makes a poor graphics editor Also, this approach would make it easier to do as a group, with people working on different areas of the picture and putting it together afterwards. I have put the bitmap up on the same page as before in case you would like to do it that way.

Sadly that will not fix the rivers, and I cannot think of a better way to do those than to go through manually placing them and overwriting the dead terrain with something else. Even worse, the rivers are not complete, and there are patches and gaps, and it looks like an atlas might be needed on the lap of whomever decides to replace them. After all, with a map that large, it seems a shame not to be accurate when accuracy is possible.

[Mine is 2.8Ghz, 512MB RAM]

1) Computer performance .... there was a suggestion (either near the beginning of this thread or in my "other" Civ 4-related thread) of possibly being able to delete or modify some of the ingame scripts in order to speed up the turns a bit. I wonder what effect it would have on the ai performance?

There is nothing you can remove from the basic game which would speed up the AI, as far as I know. And it is already very slow on the first turn. All one can do is not play with any mods which will slow it further. I seriously would not want to use the map in single player (barring computer performance increases), although it would make a good PBEM map, probably.

2) I wonder whether there is any way of increasing the maximum number of civs available in a CTP2 scenario .... so that more real-world nations could appear on a possible "political" version of this map?

Only up to 32 (or 29 if you want to be able to reload saved games). Numerous discussions have taken place (on CtP, Civ2, Civ3, CtP2) of the best arrangements of 32 players to represent the modern nations. The number is high enough to get a good spread, anyway, although again, I wouldn't trust any modern nation with the AI.

[Son of moose]

Immortal Wombat:

would be to alter the bitmap directly and reconvert it again

Yes .... maybe this would make more sense. (If it is not too much of a hassle for you). Maybe (again your time permitting), you can explore whether there are any other minor (or not so minor) amendments (additions or alterations) that could be made in order to further improve the final CTP2 map and any scenarios that should (hopefully) arise directly from it.

You have already done so much great work in this regard!!! Perhaps (as previously suggested) some sort of group effort might be the way to go with this most ambitious venture .... so that various people could contribute their respective expertise to the process. However, in view of your massive contribution to ressurecting Omni's world map, it would only be right and proper for you to be in charge of deciding which additions and/or alterations are incorporated into the "official" version of the map.

After all, with a map that large, it seems a shame not to be accurate when accuracy is possible.

Indeed .... this is imho vitally important. This is where some form of group effort might prove extremely useful. After all, it would be incredibly wasteful for several people to work on the same thing at the same time.
Perhaps this form of meaningful collaboration would enable us to develop a really top notch BMP image that could be converted into a similarly (extremely large) top notch CTP2 map (that will be free of some of the blemishes characterising the current version).

There is nothing you can remove from the basic game which would speed up the AI, as far as I know. And it is already very slow on the first turn. All one can do is not play with any mods which will slow it further. I seriously would not want to use the map in single player (barring computer performance increases), although it would make a good PBEM map, probably.

It is probably best not to unnecessarily "mess around" with game files. Perhaps, with respect to the single player format, this map (and everything that will hopefully go with it) can be best seen as an investment in the future .... insofar as computers will most definitely become significantly more powerful in the coming years. Therefore (hopefully) CTP2 will be able to continue to evolve and grow in relation to this technological revolution.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
There is nothing you can remove from the basic game which would speed up the AI, as far as I know. And it is already very slow on the first turn. All one can do is not play with any mods which will slow it further.

Well nothing to remove but something to improve at least I know that the algorithm to assign exploration goals to AI stacks is poor. It scans the entire map in steps of 5 tiles, for each AI and each turn. Probably there is something better, but also more complicated.

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Only up to 32 (or 29 if you want to be able to reload saved games).

Actual 32 players if you use the playtest.

-Martin

[Son of moose]

Martin Guhmann:

Thank you for your reply.

Well nothing to remove but something to improve at least I know that the algorithm to assign exploration goals to AI stacks is poor. It scans the entire map in steps of 5 tiles, for each AI and each turn. Probably there is something better, but also more complicated.

Perhaps one of the talented modders might be able to help us here.

Anything that could possibly speed up the game (without disturbing the ai) would be great and would most certainly make a single player (SP) version of the world map (which is my particular wish ) a viable prospect.

EDIT:

Maybe some of the members more prominently involved in the "Source Code" project might be prepared to lend us their assistance and their expertise.

As stated above, an improved giant world map (with rivers and other geographic features included in their correct location) should surely represent the foundation for the ultimate CPT2 scenario(s). What better tool could there be for the talented CPT2 modder or designer to use in order to help create the ULTIMATE CPT2 EXPERIENCE?

[Vince278]

I might give cleaning up the 2160 by 1080 map a shot between finishing my current CtP2 AOM game and the release of Civ4.

[Son of moose]

Vince278:

Great!!!!

I think that Immortal Wombat is currently rather busy with his studies .... so it is great that someone is willing to start this potentially time-consuming and extremely arduous process.

Do you think that it will be possible to play this mega world map with the AoM "add on" as it really does seem (from reading about it) to add so much to the original CTP2 gameplay?

[Vince278]

Playing that map with AOM on my PC will probably not work. If/when I start on fixing the map I'll go until I get sick of looking at it.

[Son of moose]

Vince278:

Excellent .... when you are tired of working on the map, maybe someone else can take over for a while. Then maybe someone else .... and it will eventually be done nicely.

[The Big Mc]

I now have a clean 800 x 800 map complete with volcanoes took less then an hour with paint shop pro

thats 400 * 800 tiles or 320000 tiles

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Son of moose
Vince278:

Excellent .... when you are tired of working on the map, maybe someone else can take over for a while. Then maybe someone else .... and it will eventually be done nicely.

I'll let you know when I start, probably in a seperate thread.

[Son of moose]

Vince278:

Great.


The Big Mc:

I am genuinely interested in experimenting with CTP2-compatible BMPs as I actually have a grand design that I would like to create.

However, I have a couple of rather basic (noob-type) questions to ask:

# I don't unfortunately possess PSP .... but rather have MS PhotoDraw and Pixia. However, I am not too sure whether either of these programmes are particularly well-suited to painting really big and highly detailed BMPs. Are there any freeware programmes that could do the job?

# Exactly HOW BIG should the grid settings be in order to ensure that EACH grid space equates to exactly one CPT2 tile? [I would imagine that one would have to employ a grid as a reference point in order to replicate a pre-designed map].