The Ages Of Man

[Syska]

Any one know then it will be available for download?

[stankarp]

AOM Update

After some intense fighting, feedback suggests that AOM is actually too hard. We concentrated on the AI because even in Cradle, it was powerfull but did not necessarily attack. The AI now is IMHO just about as good as any aggressive AI in any game, and contrary to some opinions, the AI does not just gang up on the human. The AI fight each other a lot too.

With that problem solved, it has actually highlighted again the original weakness in Diplomacy that was one of CTP2's main problems.

An update is being planned for AOM, which will include some changes to Diplomacy to make the AI more responsive to the Human, and, I have implemented but not tested code, originally intended by BlueO, to make frenzy subject to diplomatic states.

More details at:

http://www.interwebgames.com.au/aomforum/viewtopic.php?t=100

[stankarp]

Most of the update changes are now complete.

The diplomacy additions have been written and reached the stage of no errors when the game is loaded.

There are 3 basic changes to diplomacy.
1) The armies of AO who have agreements with the human are no longer subject to Frenzy orders to move on the human as his aggression level rises.
2) The AI should be a little more responsive to human diplomacy proposals, if sufficient bribes are offerred (so keep building those outposts and caravans) , and
3) Code for there to be a working alliance between the AI and the human against another AI, the proviso being there can only be one target of the alliances at any one time.

[Ekmek]

where can we get the update?

[stankarp]

I am hoping that a couple of experienced Slic's will give the code the once over as, even though it returns no errors when loaded, it does not mean it actually works.

Then will need to have a couple of playtests before releasing it as it will be a substantial change to the gameplay.

I expect it will be available both at Apolyton and my forum within a fortnight.

If you are an experienced and competent AOM/Cradle player and have time to playtest next week (18-25 July), contact me direct at :

stankarp@bigpond.com.au

Given that nearly 2000 people have paid for the disc or downloaded the game from Apolyton (including over 50 people who have not had the original game), I would like to be sure I am not releasing a major problem.

[Maquiladora]

Sent you an email Stan because your PM box is full, i didnt receive your original email so making sure you got it to the addy above.

[Vince278]

Update still set for end of month?

[stankarp]

First playtest is over, showing all changes and diplomacy changes except those aimed at creating an alliance with an AI work to some degree.

May need to review and tweak some diplomacy changes as by using diplomacy, you can now virtually immobilise some AI (passive personalities), ie, it returns to the AI of old. Even if it does enter your territory, it will not attack. I have already put a limiter on the changes to frenzy so that when your aggression level gets to 200, frenzy reverts to normal. I am wondering if this figure is still too high. It is about the level where you would be getting close to killing your 2nd medium size AI (ideas please if you have any for when the ai should start being difficult).

The other changes are implemented and no problem.

Before I release the diplomacy changes however, I really do need someone like Locutus to look them over quickly.

[Changmai Beagle]

Many Thanks

I'm really enjoying AOM. I look forward to the update. I wish there was more buzz here at Apolyton about how much fun it is to play.

[stankarp]

I am playtesting the final now with Angrybowen as well. Unfortunately I cannot get a slic expert to check over some of the final diplomacy changes.

The changes basically make an AI honour agreements in full if you can get them (except allinaces, still working on that). The only decision now is where to place the cut off point for human aggression, i.e., at what level does the ai become alarmed and stop honouring agreements.

[angrybowen]

I wish there was more buzz here at Apolyton about how much fun it is to play.

by Changmai Beagle

Yes I wonder what has happened too. I seen the flak, make that buckets of flak, thrown at stankarp when he went public with AOM, but now those same people seem to have disappeared.

Wonder where they went

Maybe they cannot handle a game that fights back, or one that requires a fair bit of thought and planning. I for one cannot remember a game that gives you so many options to devlop strategy with. It has a few bugs and ommissions (but so have the latest top of the line full price games). But it is so different to CTP2 in many respects, that it requires virtuallya new strategy to play.

Anyway, their loss. To the AOM team

The diplomacy changes I playtested for stankarp just make it that little bit more interesting. Which commandment was it? "Thou shalt not covert thy neighbours goods". The importance of goods now makes it ever so hard not to attack your neighbours for their resources.

[angrybowen]

I thought this was good

"Viceman

Had to say this, sorry to the Brits.

Never seen so much work by so few to benefit so many for so little. Hats off to the AOM team. Suspect the Civ team are already copying things into civ 4.

Fun + many new things + pressure= great game "

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

hail stankarp and all others who helped create this wonder

just began playtesting a few days ago and have to omit that was all i did the last few days (except for a few hours of sleep and some fast food every 20 hours)

so far i started two real games (and a couple of testing ones which don't count)

the first real game as the minoans i quit because it was just too much for me.. too much land, even with almost 30 cities in my empire there were still huge chunks of free land everywhere. and i think scientific advances were coming too fast, mainly due to goody huts.
it was on a gigantic map with the default settings by aom.

perhaps i will continue that game somewhere...

so i started another one as the native americans, on a
big map with much more water and a bit more towards islands and quickstart... great fun so far and i finally seem to have broken the incans neck so that i can live in peace soon at least on my part of "MY" continent. but now it seems i would have needed the extra goody huts, was a bit surprised when getting a dark ages ahead message (year 0 AD iirc?) whilst preparing to leap from bronze to iron age.

now to some bugs/strange things/wishes i noticed so far:

- ai still pillages seabased good-tis, the tis remain vanished but reappear if you restart ctp and load game.

- city expansions don't work correct all the time, sometimes cxtis remain in place instead of turning into dead when a city expands (i'm not sure but i believe if in the same turn a city expands by natural growth and gets smaller by plagues or similar events)

- i just got the message that i have entered the modern age when i captured a city... i was in bronze age so far.. nevertheless 19th century brickstone buildings appear on my map ???

i saved that game, began writing this, meanwhile restarted ctp 2 conquered that city again and got the same result.

- it would be nice if in the gl unit descriptions there would be a hint saying which unit updates to what after which invention.. some are really natural but i don't claim to be an expert for ancient naval warfare and get surprised from time to time.

- is it due to my playing style or is it intended that you already know most outpost given sciences by the time you have spare nomads and pw to build those?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

oh yeah, and some more things:

- "dumb naval attacks" both barbarians and ai players (even those i'm at peace with) don't seem to know how to get rid of their fleets and from time to time throw a stack of 6 or more biremes in a direct assault against one of my cities to see them get destroyed one after another by a single militia

- my governor placed a mine on a plains tile with a peppermill and AND an outpost on it.. seems a bit strange to me but all tis (landgoodnumberwhatsoever, outpost, mine, road) are in place and seem to work, so i guess my people love digging tunnels under the plants and harvesting them from below

nevertheless i think that shoud be prevented by some code

EDIT: after a restart of ctp the mine has vanished

[stankarp]

the first real game as the minoans i quit because it was just too much for me

The Ultra Gigantic map is now 50% larger than the original, rather than 100% in the case of Cradle. I thought that was better. Each to his own however. I think it is the right size because the world never gets fully settled (like civ 3 by 0 AD). My victory condition of 2500 points needs about 70 cities, kill 2 ai, get most wonders and have a stack of outposts, border forts, watch towers and forts.

- ai still pillages seabased good-tis, the tis remain vanished but reappear if you restart ctp and load game.

That is a product of Martin G's goods code. Don't think it is really a problem myself.

city expansions don't work correct all the time

I have ironed out for the update a couple of problems with city expansion but it would require an enormous amount of coding to do everything. It now does not put a expansion tile on a outpost and wonders should not be placed on a expansion tile of any type.

i just got the message that i have entered the modern age when i captured a city

Never had that happen to me in 50 games, I did enter a new age a couple of times when I captured an advance with a city.

GL has had a big update to include unit update information, which wonders have visible tiles etc.

The advance from good concept was designed to allow you to choose priority advances or change your tech so you can get key advances from other types of goods. I rarely get more than 4-5 advances from goods.

I never use govenors, they are ineffecient.

Update will be available within 48 hours unless there any problems. A full new file at Apolyton also.