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  • #1

    Questions on City Influence and National Borders

    I can't seem to find another post that talks about this so....

    Why is it that other civs are able to establish cities within my national borders? I've been playing for a few turns and I've established a couple of cities with expansive borders. All of a sudden one of the AI opponents walks into my territory with a settler and slaps a city down like 2 tiles away from my capital city!!! This is well within my borders and I watched the AI settle the square. Is this a bug or are national borders just plain meaningless? In Civ 3 it's an act of war to establish a city within a rival empire's borders.

    I'm not at war with this civ though... our diplomatic standing is actually good and we've never been at war. What's the deal? This city is too close to my capital city... I wouldn't even want to keep it if declared war and conquered it. It would just get in the way of my capital city's growth space. It's in the way now!

    Also, another question... what determines the size of the city's influence? In Civ 3 it's all about culture, but building equivalents in CTP2 that normally build up culture in Civ 3 (such as the Shrine or Arena) just decrease unhappiness. How can I get my city's to expand their influence?
    "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu
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  • #2
    Re: Questions on City Influence and National Borders

    Originally posted by djpsychonaut
    Also, another question... what determines the size of the city's influence? In Civ 3 it's all about culture, but building equivalents in CTP2 that normally build up culture in Civ 3 (such as the Shrine or Arena) just decrease unhappiness. How can I get my city's to expand their influence?
    The size of your national borders increases with the number of population points of the city.
    "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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    • #3
      Re: Questions on City Influence and National Borders

      Originally posted by djpsychonaut
      I can't seem to find another post that talks about this so....

      Why is it that other civs are able to establish cities within my national borders? I've been playing for a few turns and I've established a couple of cities with expansive borders. All of a sudden one of the AI opponents walks into my territory with a settler and slaps a city down like 2 tiles away from my capital city!!! This is well within my borders and I watched the AI settle the square. Is this a bug or are national borders just plain meaningless? In Civ 3 it's an act of war to establish a city within a rival empire's borders.

      I'm not at war with this civ though... our diplomatic standing is actually good and we've never been at war. What's the deal? This city is too close to my capital city... I wouldn't even want to keep it if declared war and conquered it. It would just get in the way of my capital city's growth space. It's in the way now!
      Technically, in the default (Unmodded) game, the AI cannot build on land that is already claimed by a city, but if there is a gap of neutral land within your borders, the AI can build a city there. It's the same in civ3 - in fact I would say that the AI does it a whole lot more...

      In a CTP2 Mod like Cradle, the AI can settle anywhere it d@#n well pleases. IMO, this makes for a more interesting game (as the AI is programmed to be a warmongor anyhow). In those situations, set up a perimeter of high-vision/high movement units to track incoming interlopers - either kick them out or kill them with interceptor stacks.

      To be honest, I find the incessant trespassing of the AI civs in civ3 more irritating (with a weakened ZOC rule), as they will agree to stop trespassing and then trespass again on the follwing turn. Its impossible to stop, and with infinite stack size ruling the field, practically worthless to attempt to blockade.

      Modded CTP2 civs will also ignore trespassing agreements, but the ZOC rule allows a player to at least blockade them out.
      Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
      ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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      • #4
        Thanks to all for your responses... Interestingly enough, I installed the Activision patch and the AI doesn't build cities within my borders anymore. It does still try to build cities at the very edge of my borders and also they trespass still. That's fine, I just think it's a bad idea that they'd be able to set up shop in my domain.
        "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu

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        • #5
          Also, what are the ranges for city influence? How big does a city have to get for an influence of 2 tiles out? 3 tiles out? How far out can it go?

          Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?
          "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by djpsychonaut
            Also, what are the ranges for city influence? How big does a city have to get for an influence of 2 tiles out? 3 tiles out? How far out can it go?
            In the unmodded game, I think your radius spreads when your city hits size 12 - I cannot recall what it is after that.

            In a (Cradle) Modded game, its 8/20/36...


            Originally posted by djpsychonaut
            Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?
            There's no upgrade feature in the unmodded game - upgrading is part of the Modded experience.

            hint...play with a Mod.
            Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
            ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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            • #7
              hehe i can see its a while since hex played unmodded

              Radius 1 - pop 1-6
              Radius 2 - pop 7-18
              Radius 3 - pop 19-32
              Radius 4 - pop 33-46
              Radius 5 - pop 47+
              Call to Power 2: Apolyton Edition - download the latest version (12th June 2011)
              CtP2 AE Wiki & Modding Reference
              One way to compile the CtP2 Source Code.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by djpsychonaut
                Also, another random question... can you upgrade your units or do you have to trash all your ancient units when you reach the modern ages?
                Unfortunately, as hexagonian is writing it, there is no unit updater for CtP2. Peter Trigg has designed a mod allowing the player and the AI to update their units and it was included in another mod called the Cradle. Peter has created a second version of his mod, called the Updater2, that I have adapted for the Super Apolyton Pack 2 (better known as the SAP2). I am currently testing the Updater2 with the latest CtP2 Playtest build and I will release it as soon as I have finish the game I am testing it with (if the said test does not reveal any problem or bug, of course). So far, the Updater2 runs fine.

                The CtP2 playtest version of the Updater2 should work with a patched "vanilla" CtP2.
                "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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                • #9
                  Thanks again to all for your responses... looks like I'm just going to have to embrace modding!
                  "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by djpsychonaut
                    Thanks again to all for your responses... looks like I'm just going to have to embrace modding!
                    The SAP2 is very close to the original game, it is CtP2 as it should be.

                    The mod and the Updater2 can be downloaded from the directory.

                    You need (in this order):

                    - the 1.1 patch
                    - ModSwapper 1.2 or ModManager
                    - the SAP2 (don't forget to set DebugSlic to No)
                    - the Updater2 (the readme describes the installation process as well as the way to use the Updater2)

                    You will then have to run CtP2 game through ModSwapper or ModManager instead of the regular executable.
                    "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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                    • #11
                      Modmanager

                      Cool, where can I get modmanager?
                      "Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu

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                      • #12
                        Re: Modmanager

                        Originally posted by djpsychonaut
                        Cool, where can I get modmanager?
                        Though J Bytheway will not agree with me ( ), I think you should start with ModSwapper as it is very easy to use (though it is not as powerful a tool as ModManager).

                        ModSwapper and ModManager can both be found here.

                        "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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