Madeleine of Canada

[Changmai Beagle]

Just an interesting tidbit I came across today. There was some question earlier about the legitimacy of Madeleine des Vercheres as a Canadian leader. Madeleine Jerrers des Vercheres (a real person) was a very early hero of Canada (up until the political correctness era) for defending her family's stockade with her younger siblings against a Huron (?) raid for two days while her parents had gone to Montreal for supplies.

What I just found out was that her fame was sufficient that one of Canada's World War I recruiting posters featured this fourteen year old girl carrying her musket. She was still featured prominently in Canadian schools in the 50's and early 60's when I was in grade school.

I suspect she was erased from the school history books in the 1970's due to sensitivity to First Nation issues.

[gemini]

Hey, fascinating story, but maybe I am bias since I am from Canada to. Nice to see fellow country men and women around here.

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Gemini

[blackice]

Even though it is a short story here is the web site.
I am a proud Canadian we need to see more of this history of ours it is good for National pride.
Thanks for the post. History is not always politicaly correct but it is history, it is for learning, it is important.


http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/heroes/everchrs.htm
[This message has been edited by blackice (edited December 27, 2000).]

[gemini]

Hey, thanks for the link to the story. Ya, it's to bad that many Canadians don't know enough about history. I was surprised that no one else I know, knew about the war of 1812. No one. It's amazing because i would not have known about it either until I stumbled upon it and inspired me to dwell into other Canadian history subjects which are in the very least just as interesting as American. I'm sure most Americans don't know about the war of 1812, the war in which they attacked Canada, where we the Canadians kicked some ass and set the White house ablaze. Heheh. We even contributed to thier national anthem. I believe this line "and the rockets they raged, the bombs bursting in hail, and it grew threw the night, but our flag was still thier" Sorry, obviously I'm not American so I may have made mistakes in the line but that line refers to the British bombarding Washington D.C. with rockets from thier ships. Interesting period of time anyway. Well I probably know more American history than Canadian, but I am a very proud Canadian and I know alot of the accomplishments in Canadian history and sacrifices we have made. But it's nice to know that it's not just me. Thanks for the post.

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Gemini
[This message has been edited by gemini (edited December 28, 2000).]

[blackice]

Hey gemini

Interesting to point out i live in an area where the war of 1812 was so we because of the local grew up with the teaching.
I lived in Alberta for 21 years and found you were right they seem to teach alot of Quasi American history rather than pure Canadian. Mind you east west separation is a problem.
I think their are alot of us out there, it is just that we don't have a National pride agenda. Sad to say because i believe this is contributing alot to separation talk in the east and the west. It seems it starts on a political base and moves to the people quickly. I would say first and foremost Canada then regional we could use a national unity party here rather than obviously east and west parties.
But at any rate if you would like more links to history related sites, government propaganda or free web let me know. Here is a good War of 1812 Canadian site:
http://www.militaryheritage.com/1812.htm




[This message has been edited by blackice (edited December 28, 2000).]

[TheBirdMan]

Even outside America, some knows that a "little" war was ongoing on that time.

But I must agree - I had only heard (most) about the battle of New Orleans. I have seen/read/heard nothing about, that this war was started 2½ year earlier.

I did believe, this was only a short war, a kind of "afterburning" to the US independence war 40 years or so earlier.

[gemini]

Birdman, yes it was a follow up to the American Revolution. The Americans wanted to kick the British off of North America all together. Hmmm I wonder if the world would have been much different if that had happened.

Blackice, you make alot of good points, especially on the seperation issue. Especially since the election there has been alot of seperation talk and a new fire has kindled the western seperation movement. People are getting really &*@@# off right now. I too believe that it's because are national pride is not strong. At least in comparison to the Americans. I remember, I think it was in 1996 I was down in Texas, and we were in San Antonio I do believe and we were watching the news and they mentioned that Bill Clinton would be campaigning right around the Alamo area. So out of curiousity we went to the the campaign gathering(I got padded down by a secret service looking guy heheh), and watched Bill Clinton speak. It was a riot. I could not believe it. I felt like I was at an Edmonton Oilers vs. Dallas Stars hockey game. People were going crazy, I have never seen anything like that at a rally for a Canadian Politician. The people in the back were hooting "Broke in four years" and the Bill Clinton supporters were yelling back telling them to shut up. Pretty facsinating anyhow. But that is what makes the Americans a unified country, nation pride. Just look at the 2000 American Election, if that had happened in a hundred other countries there probably would have been tanks in the streets.

But ya, I can't understand why we are so divided. Everytime there is talk of seperation I just wanna scream. We are a big country, many divisions, two languages, and from how our election took place there seems to be no national party. Just East, West, and Quebec's seperation party. But still we shouldn't be divided but we are, and alot of it is that we are literally bombarded daily with American culture that we have no clear definition of what is a "Canadian" and to get the definition of anything you have to go straight to the roots of where we came from. And that is something that I am very dissapointed in our school system. They really should be telling stories of the war of 1812, Louis Riel, the Canadian raid on Dieppe. All kinds of stuff like that. I do believe that Canadians that are interested in our history do seek it out but our history is not as accessable as the American history that is made even more exciting due to the media, as in movie's and tv. Where we in Canada aren't really offered the same advantage in presenting a movie like "The War of 1812" and stuff like that. And if we do make historical movies it looks like something out of British Television. Just Joking.

The funny thing is that through all of our differences I'm not sure if we would ever seperate, I don't know how you feel out east but it seems that we as Canadians just don't have the backbone to seperate. There's alot of talk but it seems when it gets down to it we just can't do it. I travel quite a bit and when I was in Italy a while ago we saw a Canadian couple with big maple leaf's on thier backpack and and Coat, I was wearing a pin myself, but I almost think that we are so inward looking as well. I remember talking to a couple Italians that asked us where we were from and when we said Canada they were going on and on about how they love Canada and it's such a beautiful Country. Something that we often forget, how priveledged we are and how well thought of we are looked upon by other countries. It would be ashame for us to destroy it by inward fighting and greed.

I do see alot of pride displayed in Canada through our musicians and other artists. I saw Tom Cochrane in concert and also have all his albums and he talks of Canada with alot of pride and his songs speak of Canada. Bryan Adams travels with Canadian pins and flags and does a great job in promoting Canada and is very proud to be Canadian. So I do see pride in Canada through those media groups. Well I could go on and on but I love Canada, no where else I'd wanna be. Well Italy is a very beautiful country but anywhere I am or will be Canada is home forever.

Well it's to bad that we didn't have the same pride in Canada that we have in our hockey teams. Man that'd be something. Heh? Well, we're slowly losing our hockey to but just as long as they don't mess with the beer there will always be a Canada in my heart.

Darryl
In beautiful sunny Alberta,
home of the Rocky Mountains
and a proud Edmonton Oilers fan to the end!!!!!!

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Gemini
[This message has been edited by gemini (edited December 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by gemini (edited December 29, 2000).]

[Gregurabi]

gemini: you mixed up the words a bit.

Oh say can you see, by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming.

And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there

Oh say does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

[Davor]

History? In Canada? You must be joking. They dont teach you that in school. When I took history in school it was general history and soooooooo boring that I never took it again. They never gave us national pride.

Now they go on everyone else history but ours because of politacal corctness. At least CBC is doing their bit now in thoses 1 min spots of Canada's History. I am shamed that I dont know much of our history but I blame the school system for not making me interested. Gym the made interesting, shop etc.

I know we all make our own paths but when you are young they are to guide us for our wisdom.

Now that I try to learn a little about our history I finding it changing due to political correctness.

Davor

Proudly Canadian.

[blackice]

I wonder if political correctness is the right choice of words?
Is it politically correct to omit, change, alter, uneducate one's own history?

[gemini]

Davor, I know what you mean. It's absolutely pathetic in the school's how they teach history. You would think that they are trying to make it unexciting or something. They really should try to improve the history in the schools first before giving funding to the "flag lady" to send people free Canadian flags. I'm not sure if I remember her real name anymore. I think it was Sheila Kopps. Anyway that was pretty pathetic. But ya, I do definetely agree on that alot of the responsibility falls on the school system to get young Canadians interested in history. Our history and not someone else's history. The funny thing is I wouldn't find it hard to believe if the high school history teachers knew nothing about some of the topics we have been talking about on this thread. Well, you can always count on them teaching you what to think but not *how* to think.

Oh hey, Gregurabi, sorry for the mess up, I learnt the American National anthem from watching hockey games.

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Gemini

[BigHead]

hey all you miserable Anglays. I was born an American, eh, but my mama she was born at Quebec an my papa he was born here from his parents moving from Tree Rivoir on de holy Sain Lorence. So go all bugger off you ignorant of history Anglay wit de foppy nose in de air. We Franch be here in da new worl more dan tree hunnerd year, since Sam Champlain come an he bring wit him dat nice Louis Hébert fellow who make all de fren wit de indyun peoples. I one like him of de Héberts now living in da US cus of all you anglay.

we franch, we trap de bever an row da canoo, we know more about nort american den anyone. you go reed dat anglay writer book "Fortress America" by John Keegan, he tell you all a ting or too about yer canuck histoire, eh. you all probably don know nuttin about Mousieur Lafayette eeder, eh, well he blacken de anglay eye reel good when de americain de say we gonna be free, eh. dats anoder good book about how canada get like it is from the modit anglay, go read "The Cousins War" by Kevin Phillips, he tell you what silly hagas eatin cochons de anglay make of their country from Cromwell an de churh wit no holy pope.

merde, I gonna start a game now an go stomp dem anglay and anglay canadians who don know what good back bacon is.

merci, mons amis
gros tete (bighead)

[blackice]

Lol you were my english teacher in grade school right?

[gemini]

BigHead
Take off heh? You hoser.
(just joking)
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Gemini
[This message has been edited by gemini (edited January 09, 2001).]

[Walter]

You Canadians might find it interesting to know that in a large part of Europe Canada was seen as a kind of promised land, that was supposed to combine the best of Europe and the USA. Especially in the decades before, during and after WWII the name "Canada" was used symbolically for anything one could wish for, like "the garden of Eden" or "Eldorado".
The most gruesome story in this respect is that the place in Auschwitz where the guards kept the food and all other goodies for themselves, was called "Canada" by the prisoners, a word that was self-explaining at the time.
I'm sad to hear though that history is neglected in your country's schools. That's probably the case nearly everywhere nowadays. I've always found it the most interesting and important thing one can learn at school.
I happened to hear about the 1812 war in school, but it was just a footnote to the Napoleonic wars.