CTP: The Best Civ, or TBS, Game Ever?

[WesW]

I'm not sure about giving time to Activision. It's either play CTP with the setup you like best, or play something inferior, imo. The way Activision screwed up the release of this game, they cost themselves a hell of a lot of money. Those unacceptable screwups you mentioned are being paid for by Activision; to not play the game and use the mods available here would just deny you the pleasure of the best thing out there, imo.

[Nordicus]

Monkey:
Your copy of AvP works that well!!?? Nah, c'mon, you're yanking my leg here....Well, a buddy of mine has it on his PII 300 mhz and had a helluva time getting decent frame-rates out of it, not to mention the graphics (*shiver*). I've played it on his and it just blows compared to on my system--I'd rather be flogged stupid, shot, and burned before going through that again. But if I recall he had only 64 MB RAM, no EAX w/4 spkrs(that adds so much to the gameplay, being able to hear behind you), and I don't know what AGP he had, and he had had a mouse. What resolution do you play at? Have you played as the Alien and does its increased speed slow the game down at all?

That's really weird--about CTP too. I believe you, I just think that's odd. I think the RAM is the biggest thing with CTP. 4MB??? Gawd, that's amazing! Your system isn't overclocked at all, is it?

[Monkey]

Believe it or not Nordicus, the key to FPS games is not necesarily the amount of RAM in your video card, it's the amount of RAM that you have on your system. It's the virtual swapping to the hard disk that the system has to do when it runs out of memory. Check out the flashing light in front of your hard disk and if it has to access it regularly you know that the system is doing a lot of virtual swaps.

I play it at 640-480 resolution I think, because I only have a 15 inch monitor, my four meg 3D accelerator will only tolerate a good frame rate(even as the alien) at that resolution because once you go up to higher resolutions the amount of memory you have in your video card becomes important. At higher resolutions the textures need to be swapped out of the memory more often so you will start to get choppy frame rates. I also wont play multiplayer with AVP because I get really bad frame rates and I dont think it's my system... I've heard the multiplayer code for AVP aint that hot.

RAM is the biggest thing with CTP, but not video card memory. If you were here a few months ago, you would have read some threads which discusses the importance of RAM to CTP. I'd say you need about 96MB and over to enjoy CTP to its fullest. Again its the virtual swaps that the hard disk has to do that slows down a game.

Its really amazing how some people think that wacking on the latest 3d accelrator card or buying the latest CPU will increase their system speed. It will to some extent but remember this: Your system will only run as fast as the slowest component can handle. If you got a slow hard drive then all your components are always waiting for it. That's why increasing RAM is always the first upgrade choice you should consider (well before the ridiculous RAM shortage anyway) because having more RAM means your system dont have to access hard disk as much.

Utrecht>

Yeah i was there when Activision mentioned the pilot falling asleep theory... LOL! I dont recall if they ever did make realistic examples of the phalanx Vs Tanks problems. However I get the feeling that people who reported the phalanx vs tank problem are the ones who are rushing into battle with only one or 2 tanks... and then they try to take some mountaintop city with citywalls in them.

[Nordicus]

Utrecht:
Hey, I agree with that point too (about the morality and necessity of customization), but my point was, like I was saying to Monkey, that's just the way it is. And since the game can only get better, let's give a bit of support--like this thread...say a few things you like about it or visit the Creation threads and/or the "Suggestions to the Team" one and drop some suggestions, either for mods or for the 1.3 patch. Some people would rather just complain--I think that's what Horse's thread is all about.

No, I wasn't around here when it first came out, and it sounds (what those reps were saying) like a bunch of bulls**t, albeit somewhat funny. I've heard about this "Phalanx vs Tanks" bit (although never experienced it because I just couldn't play with ratios that absurd). That's hilarious, though. I dug this out of the other thread because I just cracked up reading it--here it is again, by

The Carpeted Man

"Bring out your spears men!"
"But sir aren't those tanks much stronger than us?"
"We've got to defend our territory from
those metallic machines!!!!
Come on now with our advanced spear making process we can penetrate even the most strongest armor!"
"But but"
"No but's here, I SAID LIFT UP YOUR SPEARS AND DEFEND!, I've done it many times before,
its easy once you get the hang of it"

LOL!
Oh, I don't care if that doesn't belong in this thread, it's just too funny. Gets me every time.

Hey, I'm not defending Activision or Firaxis or Coagulation LTD or whoever owns this game.
I don't work for them and couldn't care about any of that. But I agree that it shouldn't be up to us to make it better.
But it's up to you where you spend your money.
I'm just trying to conduct a simple questionaire here and perhaps find some people who can say something they like about the game, since (in my humble opinion) there's been quite enough trashing it, whining, and grumbling. Yes, this is not right and that could be better, we know all that, and if it's up to us or not, we're trying to fix some of those things.


So, once again, for anyone new to this thread thinking it's a debate about morality, or Activision/Firaxis politics, or anything else but:
CTP:

1. Best Civ game?

2. Best TBS?

3. If you don't have an opinion about either or don't think it's in 1 or 2, what's something you like about CTP?

(And I'll add one--thanks Monkey.)

4. Do you think SMAC is part of the Civ series?--why or why not?

------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.


"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Verrosten est X-beine das Fahrbar Bliken Obszon
Abgabepflichtighoffenburger!?!?!?!"


"Like Wes said...."

[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 31, 1999).]

[Slax]

I'd like to argue that not only is CTP a good game now, it was a good game out of the box. The patches were welcomed, but I had only two crashes over multiple games, and only lost at most a couple of moves, since I save often. I get about the same stability from all software, including heavily tried and tested office software, etc.

I will confess I had no disire to play multiplayer or do extensive scenerio work, so problems in these areas were neglected.

In my opinion I got my money's worth way before trying out CD's mod, and then later the Apolyton Pack Mod. I consider these mods to be great enhancements, but not requirements. I think if you got to the point where you really felt you required CD's changes, you have played the game at least twice all the way through, probably 2 weeks or more of time and have discovered some imbalance. On a cost per hour of play basis, do you get more for your money from other games?

I have never lost a tank, fighter, or bomber to a phalanx.

Sorry for the rambling statements, i just wanted to share my disagreement with those who say CTP was so horrible out-of-the box.

[freakske]

it sucks because of the bugs,when you release a game there shouldn't be any bugs in it ,I think.whenever I build wonder it crashes ,...so I can't even play the game,the only units I've seen in the game are the phalanx and the warroir and that's about it. thge game's just a total waste of money.

[pchang65]

To Nordicus:

About Galaxy .....
It had NO graphics, No sound, No nothing. You entered your turns as a series of formatted text commands and received the turn results as a series of spreadsheets. Maps were created by printing out text characters with the proper row and column spacing. The best maps where when you downloaded the coordinates to a spread sheet program and graphed them yourself.

[Nordicus]

Slax:

Hey, good points there. Got me thinking: I played CTP for a while before finding this site, and now that I think of it, I can't say that I was really unimpressed; I still liked it, maybe not as much as Civ2, but I like it. Only one crash I can recall.
But when I installed CD's mod and a few others, what a difference. So I would tend to agree that it's not required (i.e. necessary), but I wouldn't want to go back to just-outta-the-box play...maybe I'm spoiled

Cost-per-hour-of-play...? I'd say I've already gotten my money's worth out of CTP. As for other games I own...hmmm...I don't think I can truely say that (except for Civ2 (which was $75), NHL 99(which was $69), and Tomb Raider II($20, pawn shop) on the Playstation--I've gotten my $ of those and more). But PC games...AvP($70), not yet. Mech 3($59)...almost: it wasn't that expensive. The other ones, no. But I'd probably have to look at how much I've played all of them compared to CTP.
Interesting way to look at it.

N.
[This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 01, 1999).]

[Nordicus]

pchange65:

Man, that sounds like one for the hard-line tactician--sounds like chess in space
NO graphics at all??? Holy cowabunga, I dunno, that does seem like a no nonsense strategy game.
When did this come out--sounds a bit older?

[Nordicus]

freakske:

when you release a game there shouldn't be any bugs in it ,I think.whenever I build wonder it crashes ,...so I can't even play the game,the only units I've seen in the game are the phalanx and the warroir and that's about it. thge game's just a total waste of money.

Holy crap. You got a crash whenever you build a wonder? That's not right--sounds like you have some file problems there.
As for releasing the game without bugs, hey, I totally agree with you. But like I was saying before, that's just how it is these days--with almost any new game released. In an ideal world, sure, but ours is not ideal perhaps.

But you really might want to write down exactly what's wrong--what errors you get, what they say, what happens when you do what???--because that's just ridiculous and shouldn't be happening. If my game was doing that, I'd break in it half (well, I'd ask for some advice first ). Geez, I don't blame ya for not liking it.

N.

[pchang65]

To Nordicus:

I was introduced to Galaxy at least 6 years ago by some friends at the Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, CA (the folks who send all those robot probes into outer space). I think the game is probably at least 10 years old.

[Nordicus]

pchang65:

Uh, okay. Yeah, it seemed older.
So, is that what you do, rocket science?
Don't worry, I won't start with the rocket scientist jokes

[bongo]

Originally posted by freakske on 11-01-1999 04:53 AM
it sucks because of the bugs,when you release a game there shouldn't be any bugs in it ,I think.whenever I build wonder it crashes ,...so I can't even play the game,the only units I've seen in the game are the phalanx and the warroir and that's about it. thge game's just a total waste of money.

I have to agree with Nordicus, something is really screwed up, but i don't think it is the game. You may have a driver problem. You should take a look at activision support page and send a bug report. I had a similar problem where the game would crash if i tried to conquer a city with marines (from a ship) Activision support claimed I had a video-driver problem. They were right, after i upgraded the video driver the problem disappeared. I have never seen other crashes.

My votes :
1: CTP is the best civ-game I've played. I will never play civII again. I tried the SMAC-demo and didn't like it, it looked to much like civII.


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Better killing for the future

[This message has been edited by bongo (edited November 02, 1999).]

[Nordicus]

Bongo:
Yeah, that's sorta what I was thinking, but some people would rather just complain than try to solve their problems (this may be the case here). I may be wrong, though....

Driver problem, huh? For your video card?

So, you didn't like SMAC either, huh? A lot of people have said that it's a lot like Civ2. I never touched the demo, just looked at the box in the store--seemed to have pretty much Civ2-type graphics, I thought. What's some of the other similarites?

And thanks for the vote



------------------
"There can be no maximum of creation without a concomitant maximum of destruction, no supreme good without supreme evil"--Heller, paraphrasing Nietzsche.

"Stimpy...YOU...EEEEDDDDDEEEEEIIIOOTTT!!!"--Ren.

"Ich Wollen Antreffen Das Heilmittel!!!"

"I SHALL FIND THE CURE!!!"--Nordicus, about WAIS (Wandering AI Syndrome).

"Like Wes said...."

[titania646]

I'm sorry, but I tried to play CTP again tonight and I just can't get into it. Perhaps if I played it first, but I really liked the game interface for Civ II. With CTP, I can never figure out if I've got units that need to be moved. I still haven't figured out the whole thing with trade and caravans which was super easy on Civ II. With Civ II I understood exactly which technology I needed in order to get to the next advance. With CTP, I still can't figure out what tech I need in order to get my settlers to build roads for crissake. Oy! This game is not only NOT the best game ever... it's just too damn much work. I'm going back to Civ II. Sorry, but I have given it several tries and I still kinda hate it and I have to agree with Alexander's horse that it just sucks.